Express Your Vote

There’s been a bit of frustration expressed at the posting of the Obama icon on the upper left of the blog with a statement encouraging everyone to VOTE, so I wanted to chat a bit about this topic.

I’ve never cared much for politics, I’ve always been one to think that my little vote didn’t matter because nothing would change anyway. I’ve evolved a bit over the past few years, and I found myself very engaged in the run for President in 2008 for a few reasons:

BLOGGING = FREEDOM OF SPEECH

Blogging at its core is about freedom of speech, which I have always advocated. Many may not realize this but I am often offended, or put off by harsh language, insults between individuals or towards me, or opinions that I don’t necessarily agree with.  However, I believe wholeheartedly in freedom of expression so I keep mamaV open to all opinions. I believe it is healthy to listen to all sides… and you just might learn a thing or two about your own perceptions of reality.

MAMAV IS ACTUALLY A MOM

Being a mom changes things, suddenly you are concerned about education, worry about being able to provide for your children, and save for their education. This presidential election is like none I have seen before, and it is more important than ever to cast your vote.

DON"T BOX ME IN

I know we talk eating disorders here, but we also talk life. We talk about positive influence, generosity, feelings, and much, much more. Just because many of you are struggling with an ED doesn’t mean you can’t handle thinking about the world at large. In fact, I think it may help you to peer outside of yourselves.

BOTTOMLINE

Think about voting, whatever direction you go is great. Just be you.

Respect the fact that I like Obama, and don’t freak about it….frankly it’s kind of irritating.

Sincerely,

mamaV

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71 Responses to Express Your Vote

  1. twistsis says:

    wow say it how ya mean it huh?!
    Sorry but I find this whole votingthing hilarious!!
    Who gives a damn who is voting for who?! What difference does it make to your life really? You can say that the person you dont like will win because of this vote but really to be honest its all crap! If you wanna votethen vote and vote for who you want but dont have a dig about someone because your views do not match theirs its sad and pathetic as not everyone agrees with everyone else.
    But to be honest I dont like the ads, any of them not just the obama one but its not my blog so nothing to do with me really!
    Also I think meryl Streep should run for ne xt election ha she is cool!!

  2. missA says:

    I have never been as informed for an election as I feel I am for this one. My irritation has nothing to do with whether or not I agree with you on who I want to be president. I have no problem talking politics. My problem is the paid ads for politicians. Whether the ad be for McCain or Obama, it bothers me. I am put off by any public figure endorsing either candidate. If they want to use their celebrity to endorse voting, great. But I don’t have to like them using it to try to get people to vote for the candidate they like.
    I may suffer from an ED. I may have a dislike for political ads. That does not mean I am ignorant or uninformed and do not plan on voting.
    Nats, this election means a lot to many people. For the first time in our countries history we will either have an African American President or a woman as Vice President. Not only that, but with the state our economy is in makes it all the more important that we have a President who is going to turn things around. People are losing jobs and losing their homes like we have not seen happen since the depression. This election is huge. That is why it is important that everyone inform themselves about both candidates and get out there and vote.

  3. Michelle says:

    Freedom of speech for sure!
    I’m just tired of seeing so many campaign signs and ‘vote early’ people.
    I guess it comes from being on the largest college campus in the States, Ohio State students could actually make a huge difference in whether Ohio goes ‘red’ or ‘blue’.
    So, you guessed it. Everyday there are Obama people stalking you asking if you’ve voted, putting random stickers on your bags as you walk by without you noticing and then harassing you about filling out an absentee ballot rather than voting at a poll station.
    So, I’m not really annoyed with you having it on your blog, I’m just annoyed with all the campaigning as a whole. It’s just getting old and I just want to know who is going to win already! haha I have already casted my ballot about 3 weeks ago through absentee ballot and I obviously can’t change my vote now.
    So, Nov. 4th, come QUICKLY! haha

  4. Smudgeruk says:

    It’s your blog, put whatever the hell you like on it! The main message is get out and vote. If you’re not interested in politics, why not? It affects every area of life! Find out about these candidates and what they stand for, think about how that equates with your own beliefs. But above all, vote. We’re mostly women here- remember that women once died so we could have the opportunity to have our voices heard. I’m in the UK and anticipating the US elections – whoever gets in will have an impact on the entire world, after all, such is the importance of America.

  5. mm says:

    It’s your blog; nobody has to visit. That said, politics kinda hurts my heart, b/c I would rather not know that people I like and thought were “like me” turn out to be very vocally not like me at all. And then it can never go back to feeling the same as it once did. There’s a little more guardedness; a little more hesitancy; lesser inclination to share anything personal; and, frankly, irritation … as you say.
    Only, it’s interesting that *anyone* aligned with the Obama nation would be irritated with dissent, seeing as this is the most vocal, entitled voting group I can remember (as in not being able to imagine why anyone would vote any other way and being fairly belligerant and indignant in the face of someone from “the other side” … i.e., in early voting lines). The candidates are tied in my state, but it would be hard to tell just by looking, b/c all you see is Obama everywhere. I know I wouldn’t raise my hand as a McCain supporter if someone paid me a whole lotta money, b/c it’s not worth the harrassment and putdowns and seeming disgust and devaluation of someone as a person … as if they just dropped about a zillion points in esteem by proclaiming an opposing opinion. Like anyone who doesn’t see the verity of the gospel of the DNC and its candidates must have half a brain, no heart, too much money, and no conscience. So, I would guess the half not leaning toward Obama are only telling pollsters in the anonymity and relative safety of their homes, saving their voices for the ballot box and demurring exit interviews, media spots, and more.
    As far as ads on blogs go, I guess that’s the business. I like personal blogs not tied to ad revenue more, b/c it feels more authentic. If a blogger wants to make it a business, that’s one’s business, but it feels like a sold-your-soul-to-the-devil thing.

  6. twistsis says:

    Sorry Miss A if I made comments that seemed a bit harsh but I merely wanted to just say that its an election, it has alot to do with the politics etc but I simply dont understand why its a big deal that there is a picture on here is all, I hate all ads not just the political ones but some people are just getting annoyed about it because the person on here is different from the one they wanted to vote for is all.
    Our economy is also in tatters, its not just the states, we are going through a recession at the moment and banks are closing, people have been losing their jobs and lives too but I cannot change anything about it I just have to ride it out.
    I dunno, just seems a bit weird that people are getting a bit funny about the fact that the wrong person is advertised on here, if it were the person they were voting for, would they still be making a big deal about it?
    Anyway, how you feeling now?
    TS
    xxx

  7. Mrs. B. says:

    mm,
    There are VERY few McCain signs on cars or in yards in Hamilton County, Indiana this year. And this is one of the most red counties in America. People are afraid that their property will be damaged by Obama supporters.
    I will say that I have never seen my Catholic friends more vocal than they have been this year. The planned passage of the FOCA, which Obama has proclaimed (there is video of it on YouTube)will be his FIRST action as President is the reason. Americans are split on their opinions about a woman’s right to choose. They are not, however, split on the subjects of partial birth abortion, parental consent for abortion for minors, state rights to require a waiting period. FOCA will eliminate a state’s right to restrict abortion in ANY way. It also provides for federal funding of abortion.
    If the economy is the issue, low taxes are the answer. Low taxes and low federal spending. If someone can explain to me how taxing my boss is going to help MY JOB, I’d love to hear it. Just because he makes more than I do, I’m not going to let my envy get in the way of my good judgement. His wealth does not hurt me. It protects my job.
    Further review of leftist democrat proposals for wealth redistribution, particulary as they relate to payroll tax cuts and their Social Security plans – look into the plans of Teresa Ghilarducci – google her name – will be damning to the ideas of personal wealth accumulation.
    Watch for Teresa Ghilarducci to be a significant player on the Obama cabinet. Her idea is to eliminate 40lKs. Have everyone pay 5% into an account which the government will guarantee with a 3% interest rate. At retirement, you will get 70% of your pre-retirement earnings. Unfortunately, after you die, the money will not belong to your family. It goes back to the government. Why do liberals want to do this? Because the federal government loses 80million dollars a year in taxes through the tax deferred status of 40lKs.
    The other side of a healthy national balance sheet is cutting spending. McCain has a clear record of cutting spending. Obama’s RECORD is that he has added 1 million dollars a DAY for each and every day he has spent in the Senate. When questioned in the debate about how he would restrain spending, he did not have an answer.
    Incidently, Obama and the leftists also want to resume the death tax. That might sound OK to you until you realize that if a small business owner dies, it will destroy his business. If a family owns a farm, it will be sold to pay the taxes.
    Obama also wants to tax businesses. Never mind that our corporate taxes are already the second highest in the world. What is truly amazing to me is that Americans somehow think that in the end, business PAY tax. They don’t. Taxes are passed through their balance sheets as a cost of good sold. They are passed on to the customer. Furthermore, since we are now an international economy, if a business is deciding, all other things being equal, where to locate, they locate where their taxes are lower.
    On healthcare, McCain is no conservative. Estimates are that the McCain plan will cost 10 million dollars a year more than the Obama plan. The part that makes me queasy about the Obama plan is this. It will provide coverage for 10 million illegals. Most Americans want quality health care benefits for Americans. They don’t want to extend our already stretched budget to cover illegals.
    Obama talks the talk about energy. His record, however, is another story. He, Pelosi and Reid have blocked drilling offshore at every turn. They agreed under duress to open up offshore drilling because they know that Americans by a large measure support it. But they don’t intend to follow up with the promise. There has already been a meeting to plan for the next congressional agenda. They intend to block drilling because they expect to have an unstoppable majority in congress. These are the same people who blocked the Bush Energy Plan 8 years ago. Bush didn’t do much right in his Presidency, but he presented a good plan to reduce our dependence on foreign oil. The Democrats killed it.
    You don’t hear this stuff because the media has been in the tank for Obama since he launched his candidacy. Unbiased audits of media stories about McCain and Obama show that 2:1, stories have been positive for Obama.
    Mix the media bias with the outlandish – and highly suspect fundraising from the Obama campaign – a totally scripted picture of this unknown candidate has been allowed to develop. In the month of September, Obama took in 150 million dollars. Over half of that money was in small donations, which Obama, unlike McCain is not tracking. We have no idea where it has come from. A large part of it has come in from overseas donors. Remember. Obama agreed on the front end to limit himself to public funding, as McCain did. That would have allowed him the same 84 million that McCain has been given. Instead, their campaign has raised 600 million dollars. And a lot of it is highly questionable. There have even been reports of people finding $175,000 charges on their CREDIT cards – when they did not even donate. Look it up. I’m not making this up.
    I always wondered how the minds of otherwise smart people before us have been twisted by despots. I’m finally getting the idea. A complicit press and public fear are a big part of the formula.
    Ask yourself. What do you REALLY know about Obama. Why is the LA Times not releasing their tape of the going away party for Rashid Khalidi at the University of Chicago? You know – that party that Obama and Bill Ayers attended. We know that the tape includes highly charged anti-semitic rhetoric, and that Obama was there. What was Obama’s reaction to the anti-semites? We know that he gave a glowing going away speech for Khalidi. Khalidi was working for the PLO during the years when the PLO was strapping bombs onto the backs of kids and sending them into crowds of jews. Nice friends.
    Final point. Romans 8:28 says this:
    And we know that in all things, God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
    In the end, I believe this. I believe that a black president would go a long way to help redeem our history of racism in this country. I only wish that the black candidate who had been presented to us was someone I had any trust in.
    This man is not the man. But God will do his good, regardless.

  8. Mrs. B. says:

    Mama V, You like freedom of the press. Do you like this?
    PURGE: SKEPTICAL REPORTERS TOSSED OFF OBAMA PLANE
    Fri Oct 31 2008 08:39:55 ET
    NY POST, DALLAS MORNING NEWS, WASHINGTON TIMES TOLD TO GET OUT… ALL 3 ENDORSED MCCAIN
    **Exclusive**
    The Obama campaign has decided to heave out three newspapers from its plane for the final days of its blitz across battleground states — and all three endorsed Sen. John McCain for president!
    The NY POST, WASHINGTON TIMES and DALLAS MORNING NEWS have all been told to move out by Sunday to make room for network bigwigs — and possibly for the inclusion of reporters from two black magazines, ESSENCE and JET, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.
    Despite pleas from top editors of the three newspapers that have covered the campaign for months at extraordinary cost, the Obama campaign says their reporters — and possibly others — will have to vacate their coveted seats so more power players can document the final days of Sen. Barack Obama’s historic campaign to become the first black American president.

  9. Smudger says:

    Hang on here – is the problem here:
    A) That MamaV has chosen to display a political banner, or
    B) That she has chosen to display one that not everyone who posts here agrees with?
    If it’s the former, it *is* her blog, to post content as she sees fit.
    If it’s the latter, it *is* her blog, to post content as she sees fit.

  10. twistsis says:

    my point exactly smudger xxx

  11. mamaV says:

    OK, alot to comment on…great to see you all fired up!
    Michelle: The random sticker thing on campus is interesting..and sad. People get totally out of hand with this stuff, just be careful for it not to sway you away from voting because you are sick of the whole thing you know? Then maybe throw the stickers back at them! :)
    Julia: I used to feel how you do, kind of annoyed then celebrities seemingly “use” their fame to promote their interests. But then I think, why box them into their trade? Why be irritated by it- to each his own is my motto.
    mm: Your comment hits to the core of WHY THIS MATTERS. You state:
    “politics kinda hurts my heart, b/c I would rather not know that people I like and thought were “like me” turn out to be very vocally not like me at all. And then it can never go back to feeling the same as it once did. There’s a little more guardedness; a little more hesitancy; lesser inclination to share anything personal; and, frankly, irritation … as you say.”
    A few questions:
    1) Why is it important for others to be like you? I ask this because I think life is most interesting when surrounded by diversity in all aspects of opinion, race, creed and color. If we shut off to other viewpoints we miss so much in life don’t we? BTW, my husband and I used to get in such heated debates on politics we had to have certain topics off limits…we got over it as we grew up and realized variety is the spice of life.
    2) Why would you express yourself on a personal level with someone of differing opinion on this subject or others? I know this is so common, but I think is it so important to think about. For example, my dad and I are total opposites on politics and other topics, we both love a great debate and we have a deep connect relationship in all areas of life. What if I said to myself “forget it, I can’t trust him because he thinks differently than me?” I would miss out on a great relationship.
    Mrs B: The tone of your message reflects a closed mind. Your emotion is not allowing you to see anything beyond your tunnel vision and this is sad to me. Your viewpoint is valid, respected, and obviously researched…but many may have a hard time seeing through the emotion. Do you see what I mean or are you completely and totally ticked off and only thinking about how you will defend yourself that you have not heard a word I have said?
    Again, respectfully yours,
    mamaV

  12. Mrs. B. says:

    Mama,
    No offense, but by your own admission, you have not paid a lot of attention to politics. I have both B.S. and M.S. degrees in business, I love political science, philosophy, economics….all of it. I read it, watch it, love it. Year after year.
    Your response to ME sounds defensive. It sounds to me as though, perhaps, you are not particularly well-versed on why you chose Obama. Don’t be defensive. You are not alone. Obama is a blank slate. Intentionally. There was a shocking interview yesterday between Charlie Rose and Tom Brokaw, where they were discussing how little the country knows about the worldview of Barack Obama. Nice that they noticed the weekend before the election. Perhaps if they had been willing to ask questions before now. That might have been nice, since it is their JOB.
    Why are you not concerned about the fact that Obama lied about how he would finance his campaign and now is not policing his contributions? We are going to have legal challenges for months about 1.) illegal contributions, and 2.) illegal ballots.
    Why does it not bother you that he is discussing the elimination of your ability to save in a private 401K savings account, preferring that you have a government account that disappears at your death? I’m not making this up. You think he wants to help your family? Look into Teresa Ghilarducci. She is already holding meetings with key democrats. You haven’t heard anything about that, have you? More lack of transparency.
    How about the fact that in order to “cut taxes for 95% of Americans”, what he has to do…since 40% of American pay no income tax already…is eliminate their payroll taxes. So Social Security and Medicare will be bankrupt 12 years ahead of schedule.
    Why does it not bother you that he has NO regard for the lives of the unborn and sometimes even the BORN? Do you know anything about the Freedom of Choice Act? Do you know anything about the BAIPA and Obama’s history with it?
    Why does it not bother you that in his health care plan he intends to insure illegals? The AMA and hospitals have come out and said that his plan to insure illegals will require rationing of care because we do not have the capacity for the 10 million illegals he intends to insure?
    He is doing his darndest to convince pro-gun Americans that he is pro-gun, but if you look at his record, even on the liberal Annenberg Factcheck.org site, you see that he has a terrible record on gun rights. I don’t really care what your opinion is on gun rights. The point is, he is NOT pro-gun and he wants us to believe that he is.
    How can it not bother you that he has sat in a church for 20 years where his pastor was shouting things like, “Not God Bless America! God DAMN America!” For 20 years!
    He says that he hardly knows Bill Ayers, but the LA Times has a videotape of a private party where all of the Hyde Park/University of Chicago liberals hung out together reciting anti-semitic poetry and yelling incendiary anti-zionist comments. What a uniter.
    Mama, no offense, but the press did not fully “vet” your guy. He was crafted, sculpted, packaged and sold. And NOBODY really knows who he is. And now even members of the press are suggesting that they may have messed up and the true loser was the “free” press.
    I do know that he threw all of the reporters off of his plane today who did not support him. His people have been sifting through peoples’ garbage and going through public records to find dirt on their opponents.
    I am mad. You should be mad, too. The media decided this election for you. If you don’t follow this stuff all the time, you had little chance to make a reasonable choice. I have NEVER been a McCain supporter. Never. I supported Mitt Romney. I don’t even consider McCain marginally conservative. But I know everything that can be known about him. His life has been very transparent.
    I am proud of Jessica, who noticed pretty quickly, without prompting that Obama had lots of fluff and no stuff. The images of Obama in Europe made her feel slightly sick to her stomach. She calls him O’blah blah. Good call.
    A closed mind. No. I have filled my mind and sorted out the truth. This campaign has been going on for months. And that’s what a conscientious voter is SUPPOSED to do. Unfortunately, in this age of media, too many people are too willing to accept the popular point of view or decide based on their opinion of whether someone is a more polished debater….I don’t think it is much different from social anorexia. It is media influenced.
    And if you will open your mind, you might see it too.

  13. Mrs. B. says:

    http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2008/20081031114947.aspx
    So much for the idea that the Democrats are more for Main Street than for Wall Street. Another carefully crafted lie that the media has supported.
    Did you know that more CEO’s are Democrats than Republicans?
    Check into it. It’s true. If you are the hardworking middle you might want to start asking yourself, who really is representing you? It isn’t Team Wall Street/Team ACORN.

  14. Mrs. B. says:

    http://www.observer.com/2008/politics/erica-jong-tells-italians-obama-loss-will-spark-second-american-civil-war-blood-will-r
    And then there are these “mainstream” viewpoints of Obama supporters.
    I’m done MamaV. I promise.
    I told you I did not think that this was the place.

  15. twistsis says:

    I can’t deal with this conversation anymore its too much now with all the heated comments seems just another reason to prove someone wrong or right

  16. smudgeruk says:

    I agree TS.
    There is the old saying about not discussing politics or money in polite society, and I think the way this has deteriorated shows why…

  17. Mrs. B. says:

    Sorry Nats.
    I don’t think it belongs here, either.

  18. smudgeruk says:

    Actually, I want to pick up on this as a Brit interested in politics…
    “He says that he hardly knows Bill Ayers, but the LA Times has a videotape of a private party where all of the Hyde Park/University of Chicago liberals hung out together reciting anti-semitic poetry and yelling incendiary anti-zionist comments. What a uniter. ”
    Now, surely when Bill Ayers was “active” as a radical Obama was only a child, right? So I don’t get the fuss… Is it me?

  19. Mrs. B. says:

    Bill Ayers is still a radical. Take a look at his writings at the University of Chicago. He has done some really good work on the topic of reducing the size of schools. He and Bill and Melinda Gates have successfully worked together to reduce school size for the public schools in Chicago. But he has also purported a pretty crazy gay agenda for schools, and I’m pretty liberal about gay rights for a Christian. He also writes about using schools to push forth radical thought. Now, a lot of us feel like urban schools, which spend a lot more money than suburban schools, should be TEACHING their kids to prepare them for college and for jobs – not for preparing them for careers as radicals. But the truth is, all of these guys follow the doctrine of Saul Alinsky, who wrote a book called “Rules for Radicals”, which teaches how to essentially break down social structure by breaking all of the rules. It’s some pretty radical stuff.
    The school also has a reputation for pretty anti-semitic thought.
    Truthfully, one of the things that is really giving me the creeps about the whole liberal group at the U. of Chicago is that they are so totally unwilling to engage differing thought. Recently, the U. of Chicago wanted to build a new school of economics and name it after their deceased professor, Milton Friedman. Milton Friedman was probably one of the best known economists in the world. He believed in free market economies and advocated School Choice. Now you may or may not agree with Milton Friedman and the “Chicago Boys” as they were called, but to raise a huge stink and protest his name being put on the school….ridiculous.
    There is a letter on the internet that was sent to Professor Zimmer that was vaguely threatening about how these radical professors would react if the school named the building after their deceased world-reknowned professor. It is interesting to note that there wasn’t a single economist who was signatory to the letter.
    The radical liberals at the U of Chicago – Khalid Rashidi, Obama, Ayers, et al were not the “casual” friends that they have intimated, which is why people are so upset that the LA Times is holding on to the tape they have of Khalidi’s “going away” party before he went to Columbia for his new job. All of this stuff together, and the secrecy about it is also why Reverent Wright is a concern. Another Chicago radical. BTW….has anyone SEEN his house? It’s a flippin mansion! He’s a minister!
    All of these guys live in Hyde Park, Chicago…as does Minister Farakhan. They all serve on the same Boards. They all run in the same circles. And they are all unwilling to talk to the press about their relationships. When questioned, they say they barely know one another. If they would be up front and honest, I would have respect for them. But to lie and evade and dodge is dishonest. But radicals do not operate within the rules. Because Alinsky has taught them that you will lose if you follow the rules.

  20. missA says:

    I have not stated who I support in the election any where on this site. My problem was with the ads. Ads for BOTH candidates I might add. I am just tired of being bombarded with all the propaganda. I was taken aback the other morning when I logged on and found yet more of it on here. Yes, it is mamaV’s blog. Yes, she has a right to post whatever she wants. That doesn’t mean I have to agree with it. I was only stating my distaste for the ads.
    Like Michelle, I also live in Ohio. Maybe we are getting more of it than in other states, I don’t know. I do know that a candidate has never before won the presidency without winning Ohio. It will be interesting to see how things turn out.

  21. Mrs. B. says:

    http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=303605575673142
    You guys may not like what I am telling you, but I am not making this up.
    I’m all for change, but I’d like to know what the change is that I’m signing up for. This campaign has been very dishonest. And it has not been an accident.

  22. Mrs. B. says:

    And if anybody wants to ask me about the misinformation that Obama has out there about the “tax cuts for big oil” or the McCain health plan, let me know.
    I think you deserve the scoop on these things too.
    debrockman@aol.com

  23. missA says:

    McCain tried to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, but the Democrats blocked it, saying there was no need for reform. They were receiving large campaign contributions which influenced their actions.
    Obama is a socialist. Taking money from people who succeed and giving it to people who don’t or won’t, is redistribution of wealth. There is no incentive for job creation if you are going to get hit with high taxes as a result. European countries with socialist policies have high amounts of unemployment and poverty. Shared wealth equals shared poverty.
    Obama is not experienced enough to be president. Even Biden, Obama’s running mate, admitted that.
    The Democrats took over congress in 2006, and the economy has weakened since.
    The problems in the economy were possible before Bush took office, they just became reality under him. The problems have been in place for years.
    The estate tax or death tax is wrong. Yes, it only goes after estates over $600,000, but if I build an estate worth a couple of million, and I want to pass it to my kids, why should the government be involved in that in any way?
    Campaign workers for Obama have taken to the streets in larger cities promising the homeless food if they register to vote.
    Never before in a campaign have I seen such a huge push to vote early. Makes me question the motives.
    Michelle Obama has been quoted as saying “I am finally proud to be an American.” I would prefer to have a First Lady who has ALWAYS been proud to be an American. Not someone who is proud because her husband is running for president.
    I agree with you Mrs. B, that this campaign has been very dishonest and it has not been an accident.
    Sorry, I tried to keep my opinion out of it, but politics tend to get people fired up.
    Mrs. B, I think you already have my email. Would you please send me the info? Thanks.

  24. missA says:

    Forgot to add that I do respect everyone’s right to make their own decision. The important thing to me is that everyone gets out and votes.

  25. LaurenZ says:

    I for one agree with Michelle Obama. Not only have I been anything but proud to call myself an American since U.S. occupation in Iraq, I’ve been down right ashamed. Decisions under Bush’s presidency are reprehensible, and yes, when I’m in a foreign country, the last thing I want to do is say where I’m from. I definitely haven’t been “proud” to be an American for some time.
    Another thing, Obama is not a socialist. His ideas on graduated tax are nothing new. Were Teddy Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan socialists? No. Obviously the trickle down effect is the butt sweat of American capitalism and has proved only successful in WIDENING the gap between the haves and have -nots.

  26. LaurenZ says:

    I agree with what someone said earlier; sometimes when people reveal beliefs, be they political or other, it’s curious the immediate guard or weariness that materializes of the against/of other. I have really enjoyed and respected your contributions related to you and your daughter’s journey Mrs. B. Your latest posts on politics -the last link you posted… it’s ironic, I think, that reeks of propaganda, reminiscent of the fear campaign of Bush.

  27. missA says:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
    “Spread the Wealth” Obama’s words, not mine, equals the definition of Socialism.
    Sorry you are ashamed of where you come from.

  28. Anonymous says:

    wikipedia? Are you serious?
    I am also sorry that I have to feel ashamed, but hopefully soon that will change.

  29. missA says:

    We all want change. We all want things to get better. I think everyone would like to see the war end. We all just don’t agree on how things should be done. That is the beauty of the freedom to vote for whomever we choose.
    I wish that we did not have men and women dying over in Iraq, but they believe they are over there for a reason and I support them, even if I do not support the war.

  30. Anonymous says:

    hah, no I’m good. I’m too absorbed in Ayn Rand.

  31. Michelle says:

    Well, I guess MamaV got what she wanted..
    A good debate.
    Good job, MV.
    BTW, I don’t let the way people act sway my vote, I did my research and voted where I saw fit. Whoever wins, wins, in my opinion. We’ll see! I’m excited to state up all night waiting for the results. I am even more curious to see how Ohio swings. People say it is blue, but others say most people will end up voting for McCain behind the curtain.

  32. mm says:

    In reply to MAMA V’s challenges …
    I think people can love each other, like each other, respect each other and have vastly differing political, religious or otherwise divisive-topic views. I wouldn’t decline to engage with people because their ideas differ from mine. However, it remains that we are, as humans, attracted to others who seem like us … with whom we can share something in common. That is why we form relationships, groups, teams, religions, political parties.
    I might engage with my groups on a different level than those with whom I am aware of substantial differences, especially when it seems to involve judgment.
    The part of my comment that referred to that was the salient issue in the hesitancy … why would I make myself potential vulnerable, emotionally or personally or in any way, to someone who says they just can’t respect someone who would vote for guy x/gal y … what kind of woman are you? What kind of world citizen are you? What kind of cold-hearted idiot are you to not see the guy z is the *answer* and your guy/gal are superficial maverick-y wanna be’s who couldn’t possibly do a damn good thing for this country and will, indeed, run it into ruin, despair, depression, denial and ultimate armeggeddon.
    I hear far fewer McCain-Palin supporters “witnessing” for their team than Obama-nation folks proselytizing for theirs. However, it’s fairly fervent on both sides.
    Maybe it’s like the difference between protestant churches that grew around a tradition of tent-meetings vs. the old ghosts of Roman Catholicism that eschew evangelism. It’s interesting, from that perspective, that those wildy differing faith traditions can also be disparately split (amongst themselves and then in alignment with the “other” groups) on the candidates … Catholics may be pro-life but pro-government programs and more world-concensus and go with Obama, while conservative protestants might opt for McCain.
    I’m with the Ohio poster, however, in that I read blogs for their specific theme/content and am weary of the campaign media assault. If I want to see politics on a blog, I would read a political one. I also realize that every single possible kind of content, even crafts, could somehow have political sidebars. Obviously, I came back to this post, distasteful about myself that I felt about it. That said, I worked in mainstream newspaper journalism for 12 years and several years prior to that in agency advertising … so I know how advertising works, for those who sell it and those who accept the money. Makes the world go ’round.

  33. mamaV says:

    Hi Mrs. B: Thanks for your comments and for posting the links to the articles for us all to educate ourselves on the critizism of Obama. I read it all.
    Here’s my deal:
    1) The “media” is a huge out of control conglomerate of people spouting their beliefs, therefore the truth likely does not exist out there. All of us need to sort through this information and ultimate make a choice and/or go with our gut.
    2) I don’t think stating credientials in personal education or interest is relevant to this discussion, so I’ll leave mine off.
    3) At the end of the day, the articles with “socialism and radical” thought does not scare me. My view is the more you make the more you should give. This society is greed obsessed. Our kids would benefit by seeing how the rest of the world lives so they understand what true poverty is. Taxes are fine with me, I don’t need anymore than I have, and my money can go to benefit all. We could use some socialized programs and “radical” change in this country so sign me up.
    4) I am pro-choice, pro-gay, pro all people. Born and raised Catholic, still go to Catholic church, and the leaders are welcoming and accepting of my points of view. I believe the Bible is a nice story told by men as shown in the various versions and interpretations availabl. We tell ourselves these stories so we are not scared of life. I believe in a heaven but not a hell. I believe in GOD. I have a relationship with god and I try every day to be the best person I can be. Compassion is what this country needs more of. I listen to Dalhi Lama, and give other religons a chance to express themselves rather than closing my mind off to one line of thought. What a wonderful experience it is. How would god feel about this discussion? Would he feel like we are respecting one another?
    5) Our children should be shown both sides of the coin, just as my kids are. We state our viewpoint, and the other sides viewpoint, backed by the comment “you need to make your own decisions and opinions.” My little guy sides with Grandpa on McCain-wonderful! My daughter defended her friend with a family of McCain supporters on the bus when all the kids where shouting Obama. We are the only family in the entire neighborhood with an Obama sign, the others are afraid to post theirs in a totally McCain area (many have approached me separately). When I told my daughter we were having a heated discussion on this blog, she said she saw a “McBama” sign which cracked me up, I thought that was a great idea for undecided voters or maybe people who relate to both candidates.
    6) America is still extremely racist. We live in one of the most segregated communities in the country, and I see it daily. Many white individuals who think at face value I think like them discuss their sad, mean, horrible feelings about black people and I am appauled. I don’t sit silent, instead I let them have it. I teach my children that we are all the same, and they will hopefully pass this compassionate thought on.
    7) I am not fearful of an Obama loss, but an Obama win. I fear he will not serve his term because of all the black hatred that exists will undoubtedly take his life at some point.
    8) Healthcare is another example of our countries greed- turn away a person in need because they are an illegal?? Are you serious? What if that was one of your family members? Again, compassion. These are people for goodness sake. Watch the movie Sicko to see EMT’s literally dump a homeless women out on the street in her hospital gown. Why is one life worth more than another? Americas motto is basically – if you can afford to live great, if not, too bad. We are currently paying $1400 per month for health care under COBRA by the way and I am very concerned about getting on another group plan so we can keep our health care and get out costs down.
    9) Jessica. You should only be proud of her decisions if you have shown her both sides. Is she reading this discussion? Does she have the opportunity to form her own point of view or is she bombarded by a one sided view filled with fear that she doesn’t even realize there is another way to think?
    10) I don’t give a rip about Jane Fonda and Jong riddled with anxiety, that article was just silly. In what way shape or form is this “the truth?”
    11) Fraud occurs on both sides, you know this. Both in campaign contributions and voter fraud. Both sides blame each other and getting into this game is just naive.
    Finally, I added the little Obama icon to this blog after watching his paid campaign segment on national TV. I was inspired. I believe he is good at heart. I am ok if I am proved wrong, but for once I have something to believe in, and I think if anyone can change this country it is him. I don’t see him as a polished con man, that’s just fear talking.
    Respectfully,
    mamaV

  34. mamaV says:

    Hey Michelle: After I read your comment about Obama supporters stuffing stickers in bags randomly on campus, I heard this great documentary on NPR on just this topic. They followed this really attractive girl around on campus, her mission to register voters. She would stop at nothing, including flirting, etc. to get registrants. It sounds totally out of hand!
    Sad story- she ventured into this huge group of drunk rowdy guys to convince them to head over to an Obama party with NFL stars. One of the guys flashed his cell phone up to her face which showed Obama turning into a monkey, and said “This is what we think about Obama, get the F— out of here”
    Wow. That’s what I am talking about on the racist side. Do you hear/see this sort of commentary on campus? I can’t help but feel shocked by it you know?
    Love,
    mamaV

  35. missA says:

    1.If you want to check out facts about either candidate, I recommend checking out factcheck.org. I believe the media tends to be one-sided and not always truthful.
    2.We pay taxes in order for this country to run. That is how it has always been, how it will always be. I don’t have a problem with that. I may not need more than I have, but I know I can not afford to pay out more. People are already losing their homes. If they can’t afford to make house payments, how are they supposed to afford paying more taxes.
    3.Radical change? Yes we need change. (I just love how everyone for Obama spouts that word) Have you taken a look at what it means to be a radical such as the likes of Bill Ayers and Khalid Rashidi? Not exactly the type of “radical” change I am looking for.
    4.I believe in a woman’s right to choose. I would never choose abortion for myself, but I don’t think I have the right to tell a woman she can not choose one for herself. I can not, however, support partial-birth abortion. Anyone who is not sure what is involved with one should research it. I believe that if a woman has not made the decision to have an abortion before the second trimester, too late.
    5.I work with an extremely diverse group of people. Most are supporters of Obama and I respect that. Yet I fear discussing why I do not support Obama for fear of being dubbed a racist. Until a few weeks ago I planned on voting for anyone who wasn’t a Republican. I voted for Clinton in the primary. I have changed my mind after doing my own research and talking to others who’s opinions I respect. Does that make me racist? It disappoints me that the race issue has been brought into this discussion.
    6.You state that we should all be open-minded, yet when someone does not agree with you, you accuse them of being close-minded. I am open to hearing why exactly you support Obama.
    7.You support Obama, yet you accept an advertisement that was paid for by the Republican National Convention. Is that not placing the almighty dollar before values?
    I come to this website for support. To read about issues such as self-acceptance and self-esteem. I come here to receive support when I need it. I never wanted to discuss politics on here. I never cared to know the political views of the other posters on here. Support who you want, vote for who you want. Just don’t accuse others of being close-minded when they don’t agree with you.

  36. Michelle says:

    MamaV,
    Maybe I am just sheltered in my choice of groups here on campus, but I hardly see much racism in relation to the campaign. But, I don’t really put myself out there to find out. We have had one spot of racism this year, a guy decided to draw a noose and write the ‘n’ word on a girl’s white board on her door. They reported it. I’m not quite sure what happened to the guy who did it, he said he was too drunk to remember him writing it. His friend’s were the ones who convinced him that he even did it!
    Anyway,
    most people who are against Obama are really just for McCain, you know what I mean? I haven’t seen or heard any racism towards Obama. OSU is actually known as quite a conservative school, but this year I have seen more and more democratic buttons. I voted for McCain for my own reasons, but there is nothing really that says Obama would be better or worse than McCain to me.
    Both candidates are rather dull, specially in the state of being that we are in right now.
    I am currently watching BBC America, and they have been following the election. During a commercial, the quote was, “In two days, Americans are going to vote for something that may change the entire world.”
    I have never thought of it that way, really. I realize we are a super power, but I keep thinking about how OUR country is going to be affected. I feel kind of selfish for that, but I feel like we need to work on us for awhile now, you know?
    But anyway,
    that story is pretty sad, I hope MOST of Americans base their decisions on something other than race. It shouldn’t matter. I don’t think it does, anyway.

  37. twistsis says:

    please just stop this all of you!
    Its not hard really is it just vote for who you want and dont worry about what others are doing!
    I hate this topic on here and I hate seeing the comments that are going back and forward again always trying to go one better!!!!!!

  38. Mrs. B. says:

    I agree, Nats.
    This does not belong here.
    MamaV, you are a very smart woman, but how dare you insinuate that I brainwash my daughter. My daughter is a free spirit, with her own mind and thoughts. She reads diverse opinions and draws her own conclusions. She runs around with artsy and anti-religious friends and she makes a strong case for the fact that our nation is the only nation with real freedom of voice, opinion and thought; and democracy and, indeed, capitalism are what has made it so. She sees Obama as form without substance. She also, believes that you cannot call yourself a Christian and not support the Born Alive Infant Protection Act and Partial Birth Abortion.
    As mother, you would kill someone who took away your right as a mother to be there for your daughter if she were pregnant. Obama wants minor children to be able to receive abortions without parental consent, among other things with the “Freedom of Choice Act.” This act till eliminate the rights of any state to impose ANY limits on abortion, including waiting periods or parental consent. It might make sense in some abusive parental relationships to make this the case. Not in most. The consent laws already provide alternatives for dysfunctional families. But I’m going to tell you something. My daughter is making a faster recovery through her ED because she has parents who are fighting WITH her. Parents are here to help their children. We are not the enemy.
    You do not work in healthcare and so I don’t blame you for your level of ignorance about it. I manage benefits and my husband is a physician. Our system does not have the capacity to handle the 10 million illegals that Obama’s proposal will cover. We have physician and nurse and technician shortages across this whole country. We have Americans across this country who cannot get what they need. I have friends on this board who I have helped get coverage by whatever means I could. Because the system doesn’t work for our OWN. It takes 15 years to train a Radiologist like my husband. There are 2500 too few as it stands. We cannot train new ones overnight. And his specialty is only one that cannot meet the current need. There aren’t enough of ANY kinds of physicians. You will break a fragile system with your “generosity”.
    Finally, in the event that you did not know it, we already have a progressive tax system. I’m not arguing against it. Furthermore, my church requires a 10% tithe, and I have friends who need my help. I give it wherever I see the need. If there is one thing you would not call me if you knew me at all, it would be greedy. And Jesus is watching to see how we handle our OWN resources, not how willing we are to give away somebody elses.

  39. Mrs. B. says:

    Mama,
    So when Obama turns out to BE a polished Con Man, you will apologize for not taking the time to know what he really stood for? For basing your opinion on an infomercial?
    Good.
    That will help all the people who lose their jobs along the way when all those GREEDY corporations move their jobs overseas because we have the second highest corporate tax rate in the world.
    That will help all those small business owners who have to cut payroll because they have a huge new tax bill.
    To say that the “fraud is on all sides” is like saying you have been wearing blinders this whole election cycle. Obama IS a fraud. He SAID he was going to take public financing for his campaign. He LIED. It ended up giving him a 500 million dollar funding advantage and God only knows where this money came from. He could have structured his donations in a way that could have tracked them. He did not. On purpose. Because he is a fraud.
    He helped to organize ACORN. He got them Federal funding and now they are using public money to support a candidate. Patently illegal.
    The good thing for you is that this leftist fraud will only get two years to swing us as far left as he can. The public is going to be FURIOUS when we lose jobs, and focus on passing gay marriage and extreme abortion rights when what they wanted was job growth and reaching across the aise for reconcilitation.
    This guy is a divider, not a uniter. The article I sent you about Jane Fonda and Erica Jong was not to show you about Jane Fonda and Erica Jong, but to show you how liberals are threatening blood in the streets if Obama loses. Nice people. Have you heard any of that from conservatives?
    Oh, and Obama. He’s so generous. He has relatives all over the world living in poverty. And he hasn’t lifted a finger to help them.
    But that’s typical. Liberals do not donate time or money, personally. Every study shows that conservatives give significanly more of their resources to charity than do liberals. They are also happier. Liberals are half-empty people. They don’t trust themselves to do the right thing on their own. And apparently for good reason.
    http://strongconservative.blogspot.com/2008/06/conservatives-happier-more-generous.html

  40. LaurenZ says:

    Actually, Yes, Mrs. B. Yes, I have. Reach across the aisle? I think it is you who haven’t been paying attention. I don’t think Obama is a saint or the answer to all of our problems, nor do I believe that of John McCain. And as for your link, again, I expected more of you.

  41. LaurenZ says:

    Living in poverty? His brother George?!!!! George just went on record for saying how irate he was over that bs. Try going to factcheck.org.

  42. Mrs. B. says:

    How about his Obama’s favorite aunt in Boston? The illegal alien. The one he says now should be held fully accountable in the law. He is very “close” to her. And she lives in decrepit public housing. While he lives in a 2 million dollar house in Hyde Park financed in part by a shady deal with convicted Chicao felon, Tony Rezko. The guy who first discovered the Messiah, Obama. I didn’t call him The Messiah….Minister Farrakhan did.
    And you don’t believe that conservatives give more than liberals? I’d be happy to show you. It’s been studied numerous times. How many studies do you want to see? It always makes liberals really really mad. But it has been proven over and over again.
    Read Arthur Brooks study from the University of Syracuse. It was published thoroughly and convincingly in his book “Who Really Cares”. Liberals don’t give, they point to the “Other” guy. They don’t even give as much blood, for heaven’s sake.

  43. Mrs. B. says:

    AND Then of course, you can look at the specific giving records of the candidates:
    Candidates & Charitable Giving
    ——————————————————————————–
    “There has been so much talk about John and Cindy McCain owning multiple properties and being out of touch with the common person, I found these stats to be astounding, especially from the party of the down trodden.
    Over the last 10 years Biden & his wife have given 98% less in charitable contributions than the typical household in their income bracket. It amounts to .06 -.031% or less than $2.00 a week. John and Cindy McCain gave 27.3 – 28.6% of their income to charity in 2006-2007.
    I found this to be rather interesting list, it’s Obama’s charitable contributions expressed as a % of his income…do you notice how his miserly contributions suddenly INCREASE as his political prospects increase? Mmmmm…now surely Obama wouldn’t be just another calculating political opportunist, would he? I somehow expected better from a community organizer, you know, one who has been living with the real people on the southside of Chicago vrs. a couple from Arizona.
    2006: 6.1%
    2005: 4.7%
    2004: 1.2%
    2003: 1.4%
    2002: 0.4%
    2001: 0.5%
    2000: 0.9%
    I have heard that the majority of Obama’s contributions went to Jeremiah Wright’s Trinity Church and a non-profit dance group.
    What a charitable and giving guy.

  44. LaurenZ says:

    No, I believe the studies, but it gets down to who/what is “conservative” and who is “liberal.” You have to define it down and down. Conservative in which ways, by whose interpretations. Really, it’s much more gray that that. Otherwise no one really knows what those labels mean. As for those who give blood? The lower socio-economic bracket who have very few options, few opportunities. What kills me about all of the attention Obama’s “assoications” are bringing… McCain has given money to/and associated with the SAME people!!!!!!! Acorn and Khalidi

  45. LaurenZ says:

    We can keep going back and forth over this if you want (for a while, soon this will just get old), but I’m just trying to show all that you are throwing out there is unsubstantial. I just read where McCain’s refunds have yet to be release. Consider this: HOw long has McCain been in the public eye, vamping up his charitable image? And Obama? Obama also only (relatively) recently has reaped the residuals from his books, allowing him to give more. I don’t doubt McCain started throwing down a lot of money when he married Cindy. She has more money that God. What about his donatios before he became a politician? Why is always about Obama. He’s a politician; of course who call him a messiah are warped. He’s A POLITICIAN!!!! I just think he’s less off-putting that McCain and Palin. Their platform would be far more enticing if she were not on it. Talk about ethical dark times in her harried past. She’s reprehnsible to me. And though McCain doesn’t feel this way, she’s against abortion even instances of rape and incest. I would never vote for someone who infringed on my reproductive rights.

  46. Mrs. B. says:

    That is such clap-trap.
    McCain voted with Congress to fund Acorn’s community Housing arm. Not the same thing as having his campaign financed by them. Sorry. Nice Try. Not to mention that Fannie Mae gave hundreds of thousands to ACORN and golly gee…to the Obama campaign. You know….the same Fannie Mae that was led by Franklin Raines – recently indicted for fraud?
    And McCain voted some funding with the rest of congress to the Center for Palestinian Research which Khalidi is a part of. That’s not the same as going to his party and listening to anti-Semitic rants and then babysitting the racist’s kids and calling him a best friend.
    Not the same at all.
    And sorry you don’t like the facts about charitable giving. Hurts, doesn’t it when you find out that you are misled by people who are really about getting into you wallet and not so much about giving from their own.
    You know…the people with the fancy infomercials produced by their Hollywood friends. Oh, and they don’t give either.

  47. Mrs. B. says:

    And I would never vote for a candidate who believes in drilling into full term babies brains and sucking them out….or who believes that a child who survives abortion doesn’t even deserve minimal comfort and care.
    Talk about caring for the least among us. Pretty soon we’ll be talking about retroactive abortion. Oh, wait. we already ARE!
    And if you don’t like Palin, but like Biden, I don’t know what to make of your thinking patterns.
    But that sounds like an Obama supporter. Kind of like THIS!

    Embarassing

  48. debrockman says:

    Oh and Lauren, Don’t kid yourself. Liberals are not all poor and of the “low socioeconomic classes who have no options”. Liberals are heavily represented among our countries most rich citizens. The elite. Hollywood, CEO’s, academia, trial lawyers and on and on. They just tend to be more miserly. I already showed the numbers on the percentages of CEO’s who vote Democrat. Don’t kid yourself. The Republicans are not the wealthy class.

  49. LaurenZ says:

    Wow. I’m out. I understand that this an important election. And yes, it feels personal, but I’m not going to go back and forth with someone who is not going to stick to the issues. Now you’re calling into question my thinking patterns? No, I’m not embarassed. I’m comfortable with my beliefs. I’m confortable with you believing in God; I’m comfortable with you feeling like you need to vote for McCain. I’m not comfortable with you bashing those who vote for Obama. I’ve enjoyed hearing your points of view, when they weren’t meant to insult as a means to get your point across.

  50. LaurenZ says:

    I must not have been clear- the majority of “conservatives” enlist because they fall into a low socio-economic group. Die-hard -as it seems you’re referring to- liberals are a minority.

  51. sannanina says:

    As someone who is not a US citizen (and therefore proably should stay out of this discussion) I have one small remark:
    Mrs. B, it is an opinion, not a fact that your nation is the only nation with real freedom of voice, opinion and thought. I currently live in the Netherlands (although I am not Dutch). Pretty much everyone here would argue that people in the Netherlands enjoy true freedom of voice, opinion and thought just as much as people living in the US do. And honestly they would have a pretty strong point, just as people from a number of other countries would have.

  52. debrockman says:

    On a positive note,
    The Governor of Indiana is fabulous and there is wind in the air that he is considering running for Presidential office in 2012. He’s the most awesome and positive person and he is a tremendous administrator. He is also brilliant and has amazing business and public experience. Indiana would hate to lose him, but he’s clearly destined for greater things.
    Indiana’s economy and our state budget are strong and our kids are finally being put first in education and public service.
    When he comes onto your radar, ask me again about him. He truly is about the only politician I have seen in a decade who really really does what he says that he will. We have the lowest unemployment in the midwest and no deficit spending. We were recently named one of the best states in the country for business. We have lost a lot of automotive jobs, but we’ve been replacing them even faster with high tech, good paying jobs.
    He’s progressive on the environment and education. We’re trying to budget a way for every kid who graduates from a high school in Indiana to be able to get at least two years at Ivy Tech community college. But we’re not going to deficit fund to get it. But he’ll figure it out. He’s a financial genius and a real “salt of the earth” kind of guy, despite his Princeton/Georgetown education.

  53. debrockman says:

    Sannanina,
    My apologies. I have never even been to your country. And quite honestly, I think that it looks like a pretty terrific and beautiful place.
    And I’m sorry, Lauren. I am just really angry about an election that is going to be won because a candidate cheated his way into a 600 million dollar campaign budget after he agreed to accept public financing. And don’t kid yourself. The media image of Barack Obama is going to win this election for him.
    No economist worth his salt would tell you that we can tax our way out of a recession, particularly with a trillion dollars worth of new spending.
    That combination is worse than what BUSH gave us. Bush at least cut taxes.
    We also have a HUGE problem funding social security and so we elect the guys whose policies will bankrupt it 12 years earlier.
    Somehow, the class of people in this country, the class that gives the most to charity and creates the most jobs…they’re selfish. Whatever. The truth is, those people will still have the most money. They just won’t create as many jobs.
    Somehow, this “nice” guy, who believes in abortion on demand, without question and whenever possible, and who has a pastor who screams about the US of KKK gets a pass because he talks about HOPE and CHANGE without any definition.
    It will be ultimately OK. We’ll survive two years of this guy and then the democrats will be tossed out of congress. My family will be OK because doctors don’t get laid off – they are in desperately short supply – and our house is almost paid for. I’m just trying to figure out where everyone ELSE is going to work.
    Truthfully, I hope it goes better than it looks like it will. I will be very happy to be wrong.

  54. Smudgeruk says:

    It’s absolutely true what someone said earlier about this affecting the whole world. I’m certainly watching with interest from Britain. I find it incredible, the role religion plays in politics over there. Blair had his faith, but it was a private thing and not something he spoke about greatly in office. I do find it amazing, what a vital topic it is in your politics. I watch and wait with interest…

  55. Smudgeruk says:

    And Mrs B – I’ve read and respected and been impressed with a lot of your comments before this topic. Your love for and support of your daughter are beautiful to read about. I just fear that you’ve strayed a little into playground bully territory with your comments on politics. You know, you don’t HAVE to persuade people of your point of view!

  56. debrockman says:

    Smudge,
    I was being a little bit of a stinker. I didn’t think that this topic was appropriate for this blog and I was hoping that people would get as annoyed as I was about it…and even boycott it. I know that Nats did!
    I feel like there is so much that people refuse to see about the corruption of the process for the FIRST time in American history that I can recall – and I have been voting for 32 years. I hear people say that “both sides cheat” and “that’s how politics work” and I will flat out state. We have never had such an abomination of the process. And it has, almost without exception, been all on one side. And there has been such unbalanced spending as a result. The lack of a B.S. meter from people this election has really been astonishing. This was an election where you HAD to look way past the debates and the 1/2 hour infomercial to make a decision. And most people didn’t take the time. When one candidate spends 600 million dollars, and the other spends 84 million dollars, there is a serious problem with balance. McCain wasn’t unable to raise the money. The candidates AGREED to public financing. And McCain lived up to his promise.
    Mr. Hope and Change came right out of the gate with a lack of integrity.
    Jes was so upset last night. She is at our house right now because her roommate has been “flirting” with bulimia so she left her a note and told her she couldn’t be around someone who didn’t support her recovery…so she was coming home for awhile and might have to move back in with us until she goes back to school. I’m pretty proud of her for knowing when she is struggling and needs support. What Jes was so upset about this election was that she has been hanging out with her friends who are all about Obama and can’t state a single issue about him that is important to them. When she starts talking to them about the issues that are important to her – and in her case, it’s Obama’s really crazy abortion stance – they just have nothing to say. They didn’t even know. How pathetic is that.
    I told Jessica that she needs to understand that there are going to be elections that she feels strongly about that will not go her way. And when a candidate represents extreme positions, like Obama’s, the public begins to react as legislation starts to hit Congress. And the beauty of the American System is that in two years, if someone is too far out of the mainstream, we can throw out a big chunk of Congress. I think that the Freedom of Choice Act is going to make people realize that Obama and Congress are coming at them from a moral standard that they do not recognize.
    As a final note, I want to proudly state that Jes said she had a bad binge last night…although a binge today is nothing like it was a year ago, thankfully….but she just went to bed afterward. NO PURGE!!! I love that kid. She’s so great.

  57. Smudgeruk says:

    Hey, it’s great to hear how strong Jes is being. It must be very hard to live with someone who is showing bulimic behaviour when you’re trying to recover. I hope Jes continues to grow stronger, to the point that she will, one day, be able to give valued advice and help to someone like her room mate. Please pass on my best wishes to her!

  58. debrockman says:

    Smudge.
    I hope the same for Jes. She doesn’t feel strong enough yet for that. But hopefully someday!

  59. debrockman says:

    The good news.
    Black Americans truly feel today as though they are a fully equal part of this great nation.
    More good news:
    I think we have a President in Obama who makes people feel that they are heard.
    The bad news:
    Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid do not share Obama’s charismatic personality, and are fully prepared to charge off into radical gay, abortion rights, environmental, anti-capitalist agenda that will polarize America and will throw us into deeper cultural division. This past week, we have heard from Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid about their interest in pursuit of the Fairness Doctrine. So much for freedom of speech and free markets.
    It will be Obama’s job to control them his liberal left Congress. He’s a good politician. I wish him the best.
    More bad news. Higher taxes on the job producers, more movement off shore of corporations seeking friendlier shores. A trillion dollars in new debt.
    Last bad news. Israel and Hamas were instantly “at it” last night, right after the Obama victory was announced. Hamas and other radical Muslim groups have endorsed Obama and Israel now feels alone in the region. They know we will pull out of Iraq, and that American Jews have become markedly secular. Israel’s anxiety, as the only nuclear power in the region could result in a very itchy finger. Obama will need to act quickly to calm Israel and reduce the tension.
    President Obama has said that he wants to hear from the people who disagreed with him. I genuinely hope that he means what he says. I think he has the ability to bring people to the table. Unfortunately, even his supporters are acknowledging that they do not know what he believes. I hope he believes in Capitalism, freedom of the press and markets and a strong defense. Unfortunately, I’m not so sure.

  60. LaurenZ says:

    “Radical gay”? I must have missed this. What could possible be radical gay? Forcing others to engage in homosexuality? If it’s about same-sex marriage, then this is where you have lost me.
    I enjoyed both mcCain and Obama’s speeches last night. Finally, I got to see the McCain I recognized when he was running against Bush. If had used better judgement and gone with a different VP, this could have been a completely different result. I also cannot wait to see what Obama does. I have to admit that I’m comforted by the reduced threat of the religious right over my rights for the next four years. I don’t dislike old school republican ideology. They could be so much stronger if they disassociated themselves with religious fundamentalists. The latter of which have no business. Only under the separation of church and state can true religious tolerance be observed.

  61. debrockman says:

    See, Lauren,
    Here is where we part company.
    Here is my problem with the radical gay agenda.
    They stop at nothing at their most extreme. And their most extreme fringe is by far the loudest.
    In California, when they began to allow gay marriage, it then became a huge issue to force churches in their sanctuaries to administer the marriage sacrament. If it is the church’s belief that gay marriage is sin, the church should be able to make the decision not to conduct a ceremony on their own property according to their beliefs…at least if we TRULY have separation of church and state. But right away, several lawsuits were filed against churches for refusing marriages in their own buildings according to their belief systems. That is wrong. And it isn’t separation of church and state. And it is why Christians (and other religions, too) fight gay marriage.
    In general, religious people would be happy to support civil unions. But it just isn’t enough. It never is enough.
    One of Obama’s key fundraisers was a member of the radical gay community. His name is Kevin Jennings. I think that most parents would consider his views to be radical.
    http://www.city-journal.org/html/13_2_queering_the_schools.html
    When you force these kinds of agendas on public schools and private churches, most people call it radical.
    And hence, the non-passage of the gay marriage ballot initiatives in some of our largest and most gay friendly states.
    People are largely tolerant of gay people in this country. But when the radical fringe will only be content at the furthest edge, it creates a backlash.
    And I think if you don’t find these people as frightening as “Christian Conservatives”, you are showing a level of bias that indicates that you are at least as intolerant and closed-minded as the people you deride.

  62. LaurenZ says:

    No, I don’t believe that churches who have opposing beliefs should be forced to administer the marriage sacrament. I completely agree. There ARE churches that don’t recognize such unions in marriage as sin. But I disagree that that is America’s main gripe. I live in Virginia, and the very idea that gays could recognize their union in the same way straight people do is repulsive to them. They begin to blather on about the sanctity of marriage, as if only heterosexuals are capable of honoring marriage vows. Those who say so need to re-examine divorce statistics and behaviors of many who are married/what they do to one another after taking vows. Ludicrous.
    But again, Mrs. B, when we engage can we keep on JUSt the issues. Giving me ultimatums about agreeing with what you say or I’m closed-minded… I can understand that, it’s indicative of fear, but really, let’s talk about the issues.
    And I agree. There are radicals on either side of the pendulum.

  63. debrockman says:

    Lauren,
    You talk about religious fundamentalists with disdain and imply that they simply cannot separate church and state. My experience is that the state is continuously attempting to infringe on the church. That is closed-minded.
    I will guarantee you that if you polled religious conservatives across this country and asked if they would support gay unions, they would support it. As soon as you deem it to be marriage, you have crossed their line. You can’t call it marriage or the gay community will battle it with the church. They have already DONE it.
    Oh, and guys, if you think that the Queering of America “stuff” and the Little Black Book might be a little over the top. It is from Bill Ayers.
    You remember him… That “prestigious” education professor from the University of Illinois, Chicago, who is as leftist as ever. He just works now subverting traditional American values from inside the schools instead of bombing police stations. Expect that some Bill Ayers surrogate will be named Secretary of Education in this administration.
    Change you can believe in. Woot.

  64. smudgeruk says:

    What about gay people of faith? I know, I know that homosexuality is frowned upon in most major world religions and in their religious texts. But if I was a gay person of faith I would want to have my union celebrated in a religious place of worship with all the “trimmings” that come with it. I wouldn’t say that was radical, per se, but pushing the boundaries of what is currently “acceptable”.

  65. LaurenZ says:

    exactly smudgeruk, and there ARE churches who would be comfortable with administering the marriage sacrament. Mrs. B, your religious reviews are not representative of everyone. The “church” doesn’t own “marriage”. Some religious institutions would embrace marrying gay couples. In some ways, yes I see how the state could be seen as trying to infringe upon the church, but largely in the past?!!! With religious groups trying to get creationism into school curriculum? For religious beliefs/deciding when the soul is part of the fetus?! It’s not like you have to have an abortion. What about my right to not give birth? My friend who is catholic feels the same way. It’s fine if you disagree, but your beliefs should not dictate my lifestyle. I see where there is cause for concern. If I was pro-life and morally opposed abortion, I wouldn’t want my taxes to go in part to funding abortion. I see that point. It’s valid. I’m not saying it’s not. I’m not denying that there is overstep on the far left side, but you act as though the religious right never tries to overstep their side. You don’t concede that. I’m not excusing it, but unfortunately, I think the over-stepping of the far left is in response to fundamentalists trying to project their beliefs onto America. The “traditional, wholesome American way” means XYZ, and if you’re a good person, you should do the same. People like Jerry falwell and Pat Roberston. Bigots and persecutors.

  66. debrockman says:

    Smudge,
    I hear what you are saying. I understand what you are saying. And if I were a religious gay person, I would ask the same question. My opinion is that individual churches could decide to celebrate civil unions wherever and however is comfortable within the doctrine of that church. But they can’t be referred to as marriages, because in the US, we have reciprocity ACROSS states and that starts getting very complicated legally when people move state to state or from church to church. You end up trodding on the toes of religious people. And it can’t be helped and it really isn’t fair.
    To keep the separation of church and state, since marriage is a CHURCH, and defined originally BY the church, it is as the Bible defines it.
    That does NOT mean, however that the GOVERNMENT cannot define a relationship that grants all of the benefits that the STATE can award….Hence, the civil union.

  67. LaurenZ says:

    And the Bible like any book is interpretated.

  68. Clara says:

    I bow down humbly in the prsnecee of such greatness.

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