You can't take it back

Video commentary on the Faces of Pro Ana saga that occured over the weekend. Videos are a bit choppy, but I am busy as heck and I wanted to get these posted.

Part 2 (camera died on me!)

 Looking forward to your response,


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35 Responses to You can't take it back

  1. d says:

    After being on CB for two years now and watching the site move away from pro-ana to a supportive and recovery encourage site I honestly haven’t seen many fights or hateful discussions. Actually I’ve seen 1, but thats it. I haven’t read much of the previous thread but I didn’t think that it was CBers against CBers who were fighting. I think it didn’t hurt people so much that there images had been re posted (although considering the site is members only it is shocking) but more that we were classed as pro-ana. It hurts to see my photo there since I’d never want to help someone to get sicker or to become more self destructive. I feel this ideology is shared with most members on the board. As with the argument about using real thinsperation if it is posted, and alot of members disagree with it all together a warning is posted saying if anyone wants an image removed just ask. this is always adhered to and we never make assumptions about people we don’t know.
    I feel that this whole issue has triggered many people into binge/purging, fasting or other comping methods. I have. I feel the stress and trauma of all of this is making my disorder worse. Which supposedly is the opposite these sites are created for. I just hope that stress doesn’t last too long and we can all move on with as few scars as possible.

  2. Sass1948 says:

    so much for your hiatus! lol

    guess it’s a bit early for a summer one anyway :-)

  3. Empty says:

    MamaV – as for this being a “lesson” to us all, I understand where you’re coming from. I even appreciate your stance on the issue. Of course, there is also the teenage girl side of me that wants to bounce up and down and scream, “Who died and made you queen? Who gave you the right to teach strangers lessons?” – However, I think that would be destructive and lead away from the point.

    I am very, very glad to see that the issue with Dominique’s photo was resolved.. I can safely say that she is one of my best friends and I love her to death. If I’ve been hostile, it’s been -mostly- my instincts about protecting her.

    As for all this fighting/nonsense regarding the way you state that the CB girls go crazy when unmoderated: I have been a member of CB for a very long time. I happened to be on hiatus when most of these large issues to which people refer to occurred. Until now, I’ve never personally witnessed a CB fight.

    The CB that I know, the one that I see every day, the first website I visit daily (Just to see how “my butterflies are doing”) is an amazing place. No, it isn’t perfect. We never claimed that it was.

    I know you say that we need help from other sources like doctors, friends, etc… But what about me? I’m currently in one of my binge/starve cycles that has gotten me up to a clinically obese weight. When I try to talk to people about my eating disorder they laugh in my face. I can’t afford therapy, and to be honest my panic disorder has made therapy very difficult in the past… Just sitting there, having someone ask you about your life… In person… I freak out.

    So I turn to these girls, who accept me. They don’t care if I’m underweight this month or not. (And yes, I have been many times.)

    They don’t encourage my self-destructive behaviors (and believe me, I have many more than just my ED). But just because they don’t tell me when I post about what a bad day I had bingeing and purging “You need to stop throwing up omg how could you do something like that to your body its gross blablablaa..” doesn’t mean that they haven’t helped me in a way that I have never been helped before. Not by the psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists, counselors of the past. (When I was underage, I got that stuff for free because I had state health insurance. I’m 19 now.)

    I hope you actually take the time to read this instead of scrolling past it, like everyone else seems to be doing with my posts.

    Apparently you aren’t interesting unless you’re attacking someone.

  4. KJosie says:

    My outside impression scrolling through the posts was that the anger wasn’t so much CBers against CBers, but more the heat of such a distressing situation. I would be horrified if someone took my photo and used it to ‘out’ be as something i’m not, and i really feel for the girls involved.

    Arguments amongst those with EDs are common in unmoderated settings – starvation causes tremendous irritability! Add to that the plethora of mental health problems, family problems and the other tough stuff ED sufferers go through – it’s unsurprising they explode into arguments sometimes, especially when dealing with such a sensitive subject. Hell, i’ve done it countless times!

    I’d also disagree that Dominiques picture is somehow ‘bad’ – it depends completely upon the context. I can’t comment upon the context, obviously, but what if she were in a museum, or it was halloween or something? In the context of pro-ana, then it is a bit sick, but we don’t know that – we’re just going by what Aunt&Uncle claim the pictures to be, and as illustrated by images can be twisted massively.

  5. KJosie says:

    Empty – i really identify with what you’re saying. I’m not a member of CB but i was active in Livejournal Proanorexia for quite a while. I disagree with anything remotely “pro”, but think the opportunity to chat to others with EDs is invaluable, just as you do. I too couldn’t find support in my ‘real life’ from doctors and family, as i wasn’t “that thin” they would basically not think i had a problem, but online you get such understanding. I’ve actually achieved recovery and an enormous amount of understanding of myself and my condition, and i owe it to the friends i’ve made online. I don’t think i’d be here today without them.

  6. Mellow says:

    In my opinion, MamaV has it right. It’s her site. If someone chooses to say something negative and hurtful, despite what motivated it, they still said it. The internet is not forgivable as most people seem to think. Just as in real life, you have to accept the consequences. It is her site, and she has the right to delete or not delete whatever she chooses. Truth is, whether we like it or not, any photograph is free game unless copyrighted. If you wouldn’t like to see it anywhere else because of it’s questionable nature…maybe you should rethink posting it. The internet is a tricky thing to moderate, and you should always predict good and bad outcomes before you act.
    As far as Cerulean Butterfly is concerned, I have never visited the site. I briefly looked at the navigation menu and it seems that there is a lot of information provided that is helpful. It says, flat out, the dangers and valuable information on recovery. However, it also has the “Letter from Ana” and such which I believe has no place anywhere else but “pro anorexia” sites. Even for those not in recovery, that is not supportive. It’s dangerous. As someone who does not participate in that website, I cannot fully say. Once again, this is purely from a first glance perspective.
    Just felt like I’d put in my opinion.

  7. Em says:

    I really admire you, found your blog on youtube, I’m from Sweden. The world needs people like you, you inspire people! Keep going dearest MamaV XXXX

  8. missA says:

    MamaV- I was one of the people on the other post asking you to put a stop to what was going on. Many of them are young girls, and I felt that you as the adult needed to step in and say something. I am glad you posted this video. It may put a stop to some of what has been going on. My problem is that you have threatened to delete the posts of people spouting religion, but you seem to think it is okay to spout curse words. I would much rather read the religious posts. I find the language these girls are using offensive and inappropriate. I don’t understand why it is not okay to offend someone with religion, but is okay to offend someone by talking like sailors. Reasoning?

  9. Liang says:

    I think missA that different people find different things offensive. I for one don’t find cursing offensive in the least but being an alternative religion, would find religious posts offensive.

  10. AEW says:

    MamaV, can I ask – do you honestly believe the ‘concerned aunt and uncle’ guise?

    Let me put my point to you; The very nature of this project is spiteful and vindictive, it is designed to *hurt*. A few communities were targeted almost exclusively (and in particular, regardless of anyone’s views about whether or not CB is pro-ana, there are far worse places that would be a make much more sense as a target). They will only accept a few comments, that either side completely with them or are hurtful towards the victims of this – they claimed here and on the blog that most of the comments were just insults, but from the number of people I know who have written in with an intelligent and reasonable input, I can safely say this is untrue. They will not even enter into a conversation with us! I commented providing an email address and a neutral request to have a conversation, and have had no response, and they don’t post responses to anyone in the comments…

    Basically, do these sound to you like the actions of an experienced, reasonable adult? Someone like yourself? I’d be very interested to know what you think.

    Also, I’d like to just ask if you took into account the many amazing comments made by CBers on here, even next to the ones that got more heated, because those are the only ones you have mentioned. I and many others, like Empty, are feeling overlooked!


    Just as a little disclaimer – I do not wish to cause drama, or insult anyone, I really do want to discuss this whole matter!

    And I know I can’t take this back, I don’t want to ^_^

  11. mamaV says:

    Hi missA: Good point about the religious posts vs vulgar ones.

    On the holy roller side, I asked that the poster go to the forum where he/she was free to preach away. My goal here was to keep everyone on topic.

    With that said, it’s certainly true that the whole discussion with vulgarities went off topic, but I guess I found it to be a really interesting exchange of viewpoints so I let it go. Plus, I can’t exactly say “go to the forum and swear away!”

    Kind of a different situation, do you agree?


  12. missA says:

    MamaV- I can see that the situation is different, had the girls been staying on topic. That was not the case. They were not even exchanging viewpoints, just accusing each other of actions that has nothing to do with FoPA. I guess I could understand the language had they been expressing their feelings about what happened, but that was not the case. These are girls that are just slinging hateful words at each other. I believe this has nothing to do with the topic and in my opinion, is ruining the reputation of this blog.

  13. Amber/vanity900/cult66623 says:

    I went on pro-ana mia, and i was surprised at how dare i say it…harmless i thought it was. and now that i look at it, still pro ana sites dont seem so vicious to me, its like lost sould trying to survive with the cards their delt. so, this either means im recovering…or sicker than ever. i like the “safe food” on thouse sites, not only is it tasty and a good snack its very low cal and it slowly helping me cure my fear of food. and none teach anyone how to be anorexic, anorexia may be a diet to some people but to me it’s a mental illness i struggle with. if anyone want to go on the anorexia diet, be my guest gfo ahead and learn how to be anorexic, once they take a couple weeks of it they’ll think “wow this is stupid..” and quit. most of thouse people leave pro ana sites and dont get accepted into the forms because to them this is a lifestyle, one they’ll dump after the everyone sees them in a bikini…ugh makes me wana pounch someone…sorry for the misspelling guys you know how much i suck at life =(.

  14. Mike says:

    If anyone was wondering where the “bible thumpin” stuff can be found by holy rollers: You can read it all at “Shelly Speaks” and “More From One Who Knows” and “How To Be A Supermodel” and “Pro Ana Perspective” and now the “Forum Archive”

    Until one has a good grasp of scripture and Christianity, it might be best to refrain from saying that it is not on relevent or within what is being discussed; especially when the topic is human suffering etc due to many things in life that has hurt us. We want to give everyone as many options here as possible for their recovery. Let’s not be selfish and make pronouncements against Christianity out of one’s personal biases.

    Remember this: There are many Christian women on this site who appreciate hearing what has been posted. Let’s not discredit what we have no knowledge over.


  15. Nicaragua says:

    I also agree with Empty. I suffer from EDNOS, something neither my parents, doctor or psychologist took seriously. My doctor had in fact never heard of EDNOS, neither have my parents. My psychologist had heard of it but clearly had no qualms telling someone at a healthy weight to lose weight. (If losing weight makes you happy, why don’t you do more of it?)

    The only people who have taken me seriously and told me I deserve help just as much as an anoretic or bulimic are the people on CB. And I owe them a lot for that.

  16. kris says:

    let us not forget: the REAL enemies are the ed’s. If we concentrate on pointing fingers, we lose focus on what the tragedy is…

    I have watched my beautiful, talented,intellegent daughter disappear because of anorexia. She lost weight, lost hair, lost teeth, lost self-esteem & hope, lost friends, lost her job and almost lost her life.

    The horrors of this disease far outweigh the pettiness of blog in-fighting and finger pointing. Unfortunately, the blog post that KJosie did on MamaV did not help matters. She made her point in a very real, very pointed way; but the responses to her post were very telling as well.

    I am a lurker here – seeking info, input and inspiration. HOPE is a very rare commodity when you are watching your loved one waste away. I hope that this place remains a place for me, and people like me, to come to for sanctuary – a place of hope in this hurricane we have found ourselves in.

    MamaV – thank you.

  17. shanzeee says:

    what horrified me most was that ‘anonymous’ was posting direct quotes from the CB site.

    that is just so backwards and against the unspoken rule of any eating disorder forum.

    i’m not a member of CB now but it was my first experience with pro-ana ever. and it was VERY pro-ana back then. and from what ppl are saying, it sounds like it is now too.

    nicaragua & empty – most people who have had an eating disorder (which means most of the ppl on eating disorder sites, whether pro-recovery or pro-ana) understand that you don’t have to be underweight to have an eating disorder. so i’m wondering… why choose a site that has pro-ana tendencies/leanings? why not choose a more recovery oriented one? or one that is somewhere in between?

  18. nicole g. says:

    out of curiosity, why do you always make your youtube videos in your car?

  19. Aileb says:

    You are right, this the real world and there is no taking things back in the real world.

    My pro-ana words are permanently written all over the net from a time when I was sick.

    It eats me up that I spread this disease.

    The only way to make amends is to work on recovery and help others get better.

    I am so sorry about your daughter and I wish you all the best. :)

  20. Nicaragua says:

    “why choose a site that has pro-ana tendencies/leanings? why not choose a more recovery oriented one? or one that is somewhere in between?”

    When I joined CB I was in no way at all ready to even contemplate recovery.

    And as I have stated already I do feel that now, it is somewhat ‘in between’ as you say, I don’t feel it’s pro-ana at all but saying this does seem to be me just bashing my head against a brick wall. It doesn’t matter what you call it though, I am happy on CB.

  21. d says:

    I think that issues like this and sites like faces of pro ana are more harmful and destructive to me and my eating disorder then CB ever could be.

  22. Nicaragua says:

    I agree 100000000%.

    Usually after spending some time on CB I feel better, I’m more likely to eat regularly.
    These past two days I’ve just gone crazy over this.

    Today at work I burst into tears, to me that is despicable and I am so so upset that I did it. I yelled at my poor mother for giving me some dinner. I ignored my best friend when she said she’d been at the hospital (it turned out she was visiting someone, but that doesn’t excuse it). I am stretched to my wit’s end. I can’t think about anything else. And no, it’s not because I think CB is pro-ana. I am just so paranoid this is going to be seen by someone. I feel so violated. Someone IS going to see this and everything I have worked so hard for is just going to be ruined. I felt for a long time, and still feel to a degree, that my ED had/has destroyed everything in my life. It made my school marks drop from A+ to failure. It made my friends hate me or at least not want to be around me. It ruined my gymnastics, it ruined my body. It ruined my entire life. This year I was working hard to recover (although that has – temporarily – fallen through), I worked my ass off to be a good gymnastics coach and a good gymnast, I worked mega hard to get my school grades up and things were going FUCKING well, as soon as one person I know sees this it’s all going to be for nothing… I’m still going to be just some sick little girl to everyone and that is not good enough.

  23. missA says:

    Mike- I do not discredit the need for religion in people’s lives. So long as it pertains to the topic, and the post is more than a list of bible passages. Remember motherlove anyone?

    My problem is that if MamaV feels that someone is getting off topic by spouting religion she threatens to delete their posts. She claims that it is okay for these young girls to be leaving vulgar posts because they are having a discussion that pertains to the original topic. I don’t see that. These girls are just trying to hurt each other. Has MamaV actually read all the messages under the FoPA post? It has gotten way out of hand.

    I don’t think I ever asked MamaV to delete posts, though I may be wrong. I’m not going to take the time to go back and search for my posts. I think I asked her to put a stop to what was going on. All she needed to do was speak up and try to get the discussion, as she calls it, vulgarity, as I call it, under control.

    Many people are hurting because of what has been going on. Many are young children. MamaV is an adult. I understand the “lesson” trying to be made. I don’t agree with how the lesson is being delivered.

  24. missA says:

    Okay, case in point. Not sure if anyone else is still looking at the discussion going on under the Faces of ProAna post. I left what I thought was a good post that may perhaps get people thinking. I think I was just called a c*ntless b*tch. As far as I can tell I was the only one talking about myspace, and the person who said this said something about myspace. Sorry, as you all probably can tell by now that I do not approve of that kind of language. That is why I used the *.

    It doesn’t bother me. I really don’t care what anyone calls me at this point. Now posters are leaving messages to MamaV that I will not even acknowledge with a response. They are even starting to accuse her of starting the FoPA blog.

    I know I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed (or whatever that saying is) but out of curiousity I would like to know what lesson I can learn from this.

  25. Mrs. B. says:

    missA….I am learning that sometime ED has an incredibly foul mouth. When my daughter is doing well, she rarely curses. When ED is in charge, the “F” word seems to be his personal favorite. I HATE foul language. It cuts through me like a razorblade.

    You have my heartfelt sympathy. As a fellow mother, this disease can break your heart. And you are powerless to do anything but love and pray and try to find the best possible professional help.

  26. missA says:

    Mrs B.- I know what you mean. I hate foul language, I think because I am a mother myself. I do not want my children learning to talk like that from me. It really burns me when I here people talk like that around my children.

    I guess I should have been more specific about wondering what lesson is to be learned. I have so many thoughts in my head that I sometimes find it hard to get them out clearly. I meant the lesson from allowing the discussion to go on that is directly attacking MamaV. There is no lesson to be learned from curse words.

  27. Anonymous says:

    In regards to the image of the girl holding the skull, I believe in the comments under the “Faces of Pro Ana” segment of your blog it was revealed that she was somewhat of a Shakespeare fan. In this context an image of her holding a Skull could be seen as “poetic” or “artistic”, (I assume you are aware of Hamlet “Alas poor Yorick I knew him Horatio” and all that), and not neccessarily have anything to do with whether or not she has an Eating Disorder.

  28. anotheranonymous says:

    KJosie- I was going through some old posts of MamaV’s and I thought I should inform you the picture of your friend you asked to be removed is still able to be viewed. If you scroll over the link the picture comes up.

  29. KJosie says:

    anotheranonymous – thanks for telling me. Unfortunately I have a few things I think mamaV should alter in her posts and we’ve been fighting over it for about a year now. That picture is just the tip of the iceberg between us two!

  30. anotheranonymous says:

    Your welcome. You specifically asked her under that post to remove that image. It was not removed even though MamaV said she would remove it. Wasn’t sure if you knew.

  31. bookgurrl says:

    Amen, MV. Excellent comments/feedback on this whole issue. I love your blogs (I recently discovered your site) and I am always intrigued. You get me thinking about a lot.

    My Thoughts:
    I know CB. I learned “tips” from many “pro-ana_ sites (even those that said they weren’t pro-ana) when I was sick. I don’t blame the girls there. And I was guilty by association for being on such boards. Tips on how to not eat, purge, trick parents/doctors (that only want to help) is dangerous. Someone might just die from those tips. I understand the support, I really do. But to me, tips for someone w/ an e/d – or even encouragement and support to keep the e/d is like handing bullets to someone who already has a gone in her hand. It was an adult mother of 3 children that was giving younger women/girls purging tips that made me leave all pro-ana boards forever and never turn back. I’m an adult (and also a mother) and it’s just not a safe environment for anyone.

    I’m in the process of recovery now and have chosen to write about that – from the inside. Not weights and such but what it really feels like to experience an e/d. Some have called it “the dark side of e/d.” No glam.

    Keep writing/talking MV – your insight are not only intelligent but powerful. You say it like it is and you aren’t afraid to hold back. You are real and you say what you think/feel whether it might be well received or not, whether others might agree or not. Go ahead and keep rocking some boats. I think we all need that. It’s amazingly refreshing.

  32. d says:

    On CB I’ve never read anything about how to induce vomiting or such. the occasional posts that I’ve seen by newer members asking for such tips are often met with replys of “don’t try, its horrible and not worth it”. When I first started on CB I’d never successfully forced myself to be sick, when I finally did, it was from any tips or tricks I’d learn’t of CB. It was because my illness had compelled me to try everything I could possibly think of.
    The support I receive on the site isn’t support to continue my disorder but more in the lines of “I understand how you feel. It’s so fustrating when you weight yourself a second later and it says something different. ” So its not supporting you to continue any bad habits etc but more to do with feeling less alone. I also think people don’t understand how lonely this disorder is. I’ve told my mother and she just smiled at me and said “oh you just need to get a boyfriend then you’ll be fine.” I’ve told my doctor who just referred me to a councilor. By the time I’d waited for my first appointment six months had passed since I’d gone to the doctors. All she managed to do was give me new techniques for managing my life. a year after I finished seeing her my ed is just the same. I’ve told my friends and they don’t understand anything, they said they new “it’s obvious” then didn’t say anything else. The treatment of ED’s in many places is poor and hard to get. Unless you are at high risk of death it can take years to get suitable treatment.

  33. Cat says:

    I think judging any group based on a handful of members is pretty short-sighted.

  34. Feminine Temptation says:

    I have found CB to be a wonderful place to go. It is very comforting to know that there are other people out there experiencing the same thing that you are…and that you are not labeled as a disorder or a mental desiese.
    For example… AADAC is an open group where people who abuse alcohol and drugs go to talk openly about their problems and solutions to fix them…so i wonder why on earth don’t we have such a group for women and men who suffer from eating disorders and low self esteem??! And why it is wrong to have an online group talk openly about the bitter truth and the problems we face day to day, and not to mention all the support.
    I was recently watching a program on what truly makes us happy…do you know what the number one reason was?? Interacting and socialising with people!
    That statement proven by numerous studies proves to me that CB was in fact something that suported us and made us HAPPY…Ask anyone on that website that it did give them a sense of security and love from others.
    We had a huge forum called 911 where if anyone was seriously deppressed or lost, somone would be there 24/7 to support you and help you get through whatever it was that you were going through. To me that was the greatest gift anyone could give… I was so at home and felt an enormous amount of love and support!
    Unless you were there to experience the website it is almost imposible to know how amaizing the people were on there.

  35. Kit says:

    The level of moderation on CB is to ensure that all posts are congruent with the opinions of the the head moderator. There is plenty of cruel and harsh things said, regarless of level of moderation. CB’s forums are completely controlled by one single head moderator.

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