ProAna Perspective

This video response was posted to me from YouTube regarding the Internet Suicide post. I feel this individual articulates a point of view that is worth sharing because she speaks as an outsider coming into a pro ana community, and being caught off guard on what she finds.

Thoughts?

mamaV 

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172 Responses to ProAna Perspective

  1. Michelle says:

    She seems very sincere about what she is talking about.
    I think it’s nice to see someone who has recovered, but is fully in the know that she won’t completely recover.
    With mental illnesses, you will always have a piece of it with you.. recovering is just the ability to push that piece away and not make it a part of your life.
    I liked also how she talked about how she still goes to YouTube to watch thinspiration videos, yet she acknowledges that it is wrong.
    Yea it sucks to have this mindset, but it isn’t impossible to overcome.
    The only way to overcome from it though, is admitting that you are struggling with it, wanting to recover, and actually taking the steps to recover.

    If that means a complete lifestyle change, then so be it.

  2. Jerri says:

    HEY, i THINK THIS IS YOUR MOST RECENT POST,SO i THINK YOU NEED TO GO WAY BACK TO SEE my LAST MESSAGE. ANYWAY, LOOK AT THEM AND SEE WHAT i SAID. BTW- i HATE YOU!

  3. Angie says:

    I think that this lady has suffered a lot of pain in her life. Lately she has recovered from it and therefore expressing hers feeling so emotionally.

  4. Josie says:

    What confuses me about all these people who support you MV is they say “keep on what you’re doing”. But all you do is make nasty comments about anorexics, and make fairly obvious comments about societal pressures.
    And as Vanessa always says, bringing awareness to pro-ana sites is just gonna get more people sucked into them.
    There’s also a bit of an irony here that this lady is overweight, considering thousands die of diseases associated with being overweight than of anorexia. No offence meant to the lady, but there seems to be a bit of misplaced priorities here.

  5. vive42 says:

    i think this girl proves what i have always believed about pro ana.

    if you don’t have an eating disorder, pro ana will be a phase, nothing more.

    she never had an eating disorder and pro ana didn’t succeed in giving her one. isn’t this a case of no harm, no foul? you certainly can’t blame pro ana for giving women bad body images, although i think your standard answer that it’s the fault of the fashion world is way over-simplified as well.

    i think being hysterically anti ana is sexist. it assumes women need to be protected from bad ideas that will take over their brains and hurt them, instead of thinking more rationally that women can make their own choices and will probably outgrow an ana phase if they don’t have an actual eating disorder, like the girl in the video did.

    even notice that people don’t react to groups of men being idiots online in the same hysterical way? people may decry things like racist web sites but they aren’t scared of them or trying to ban them, they understand free speech applies and trust their own son is well brought up enough to avoid that stuff. but when it comes to their daughter, suddenly she needs to be protected from the evil interweb.

    Vanessa

  6. Josie says:

    Right.
    Vanessa is Queen of Comments today with that comment, and i strongly recommend visiting her blog http://blameful.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/anti-anas-are-sexist/ to read the full version of this argument.
    Carrying on from Vanessas argument, lets take porn. There’s more internet porn than pro-ana sites. And is there even the slightest benefit in porn? No. And who looks at porn? Boys and men. Then if we think about what women go through as a result of porn, it outdoes any harm pro-ana could EVER do. In the making of porn there’s abuse, rape, violence, people-trafficking and complete degradation of the women and CHILDREN involved. And then there’s the effect porn has on its viewers – they come to see women as sex-objects, see women as existing purely for mens sexual pleasure, and may even see the acts depicted as acceptable.
    Yet again – priorities in the wrong place here. Especially when sexual abuse is implicated as a cause in the majority of eating disorders, and this kindof cultural background is encouraging it.

  7. Leni says:

    I am sorry, but I wasn’t even able to watch half of this video. This girl says she was “recruited” by pro anas in a pro ana forum. But very obviously being there for a certain amount of time did not make her anorexic. Not even close. Now recovered and gained 50 kg? Oh come on, please…

    I’ve seen many girls on pro ana forums (which are by the way in most cases a pale version of what they were some years ago) who were wannarexic, not annorexic, like the girl in the video above. They look for diet tips, but very soon get scared away when they realize that they did not find an atkins forum, but a group of people struggling with a severe illness. I’ve never seen someone become anorexic because he/she started visiting a pro ana forum, who did not have an ED beforehand. The decision (as far as you can call it “decision”) is made and irrevocable settled long before a forum turns up.

    Would you also like to see for example AA forums closed because they could lead people to consume even more alcohol? If not – where’s the difference for you?

    Well, I could go on and on here now, but I think it’s a waste of time. I’d like to see your point of view to my question, though. Maybe some new words pop out of my keyboard then.

  8. vanity900 says:

    Seeing this lady makes me never want to recover, I’m sorry but its true. If recovery ment getting better but not getting fat I probably would have done it by choice. Yes I know thats sick and rue and disordered but..hey you asked.

  9. Josie says:

    Vanity900 – being recovered means being healthy, and usually overweight doesn’t equal healthy. I’m recovered and have a BMI of 20, and even better – though there is fat on my body my changed perspective means that i don’t care, at all. This is me now at my natural weight http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/kj1987/DSC01969.jpg
    If there’s any reason to not consider recovery, it should not be because you’re scared of getting fat.

    I really hope this lady doesn’t read these comments. If you are, i apologise on behalf of all of us.
    I’m going to try and be as respectful as i can, but the unfortunate truth is she’s not the picture of recovery.

  10. vive42 says:

    i am not someone to say anything against anyone for being fat, but i do want to second what josie said just as far as reassuring people who are anorexic that if they recover it does NOT mean they will become fat.

    this girl was never anorexic. if she’s happy at that weight i think it’s great! but most anorexics will remain quite thin even after recovery.

  11. Sass1948 says:

    agree with vive42.

    first thoughts on watchin that reply vid? how can SHE be pro ana or influenced by pro ana she is too overweight! i mean, uh! but, obviously she was influenced, which confirms my suspicions that a lot of pro ana members are overweight & so shift one problem with food/emotions (overeating, oh & laziness) to another problem with food (wannarexia)…turns out to be a phase though cuz anorexia takes will power…the power to NOT EAT.

    tut

  12. Josie says:

    I think dismissing the lady as never having been anorexic is unfair – you can’t tell by one video what her history is, she could have been more eating disordered than any of us have ever been.

    And being overweight has no bearing over whether someone had an ED (weight has no bearing on ones suffering, in fact with our fat-phobic society i think those who are overweight suffer more than anorexics in many ways), over whether they visited pro-ana sites (I used to be mod of one, and the applications had the members weights – members were all different weights from severely emaciated through to severely obese), whether they had willpower (because if you think anorexia is about willpower then you’re seriously deluded), and don’t you dare make assumptions about how a person came to be overweight either – obesity is a complex issue.

    Many people go from one eating disorder to another, and throughout their EDed time have huge variations in weight. I’ve been a compulsive overeater, Vanessa has been clinically obese. For many anorexics who choose not to recover the reality is they may become overweight due to metabolism problems and/or bingeing – recovery can actually save you from that.

  13. vive42 says:

    yeah josie, i could maybe have explained more. i mean, i don’t know for sure what she’s been through. but the way she talks about how she tried to do the pro ana thing for a while and now she doesn’t made me think very strongly that she never had a real ed, that it was about wanting an identity or wanting to lose weight or both, and it was a phase she got out of without, say, IP hospitalization.

    its the same as when i accuse mamaV of never having a real ed. because to me, a real ed isn’t something you can just shrug off or grow out of so easily as this girl (and mamaV herself) seem to have been able to.

    but having an ed has NOTHING to do with what you weigh.

  14. Sass1948 says:

    what? overweight ppl & pro ana? no correlation

  15. Josie says:

    There’s a massive correlation between pro-ana and being overweight.
    Our society as a whole is pro-ana, though people refuse to admit it a lot of the time. In magazines you get shock stories of people with anorexia, not people with COED or BED, and rarely people with bulimia. The diet industry is booming, so’s the cosmetic surgery industry. We’re constantly bombarded with advice about how to be thinner. Our magazines are full of skeletal celebrities. Fat people are despised, they’re the only group where it’s still deemed acceptable to discriminate against them. You’d never be racist or sexist, but fatist…everyone’s fine with that. All this is out of fat-phobia.
    So Sass, let’s imagine you have Binge Eating Disorder and you’re 200lbs. 1 in 7 obese people have an ED. You look in magazines and celebs are skinny, everyone’s desperate to lose weight, you’re bombarded with adverts like “lose 10lbs in 5 days!”, people shout “Fat cow!” at you in the street, imagine how desperate you must feel?? Many people who are overweight or obese are going to look at anorexics and see how effortlessly they lose weight. People believe wrongly that anorexia is about willpower. Everyone wants willpower. People are going to flock to pro-ana sites in desperation, particularly if they’re overweight and being discriminated on a daily basis.

    Our society is fat-phobic, and pro-ana is one of the most extreme forms of fat-phobia there is. Pro-ana sites are basically everything that’s wrong with our society accentuated. Being overweight and pro-ana have massive links.

    I’m disgusted by your earlier post.

  16. Shana says:

    i’m shocked that some of you are commenting on her weight. that’s pretty cruel.

    josie – i agree with you. i hope she never reads these comments.

    but i’m more surprised that mamaV wouldn’t have forseen this type of reaction considering things people say here.

    on second thought, considering the type of backlash mamaV’s been getting from people here, maybe i can understand why she would want to post something from someone who appreciates her.

    whatever.

    bottom line is, if you have an eating disorder, you don’t go around commenting on other peoples weight. ever.

  17. Amanda says:

    I find some of the comments left about this girl astounding. Why, as women, can we not just be supportive of each other? Whether someone is anorexic, bulimic, or overweight does not matter. We all still suffer.

    I have suffered with ED for over half of my life. My weight has fluctuated drastically, depending on how my symptoms are manifesting themselves. Does it mean I am not suffering when I am overweight? No, I am just stuffing down my feelings with food. Many bulemics are of average weight or overweight.

    A lot of the people that go to pro-ana sites may not truely be anorexic, but is it any less harmful to their bodies to try all the pro-ana “tricks”? In my opinion it is still harmful to your body to starve yourself for any length of time.

    May I ask why, if you do not like MamaV and what she is trying to do here, do you even come to this site? Just wondering.

  18. Jamie says:

    Some of the comments on here just reassures my thought process. I constantly tell myself I don’t have an ed because i’m not thin enough so that means that I don’t need to get help, right? and I guess the only way to overcome this horrible thing is to go IP or have a therapist…so I guess theres no hope for me what so ever because I don’t have the money. Thanks for lifting my hopes up guys.

  19. Sass1948 says:

    my friend is obese & no one shouts “fat cow” at her in the street. she is not influenced by pro ana either.

    the show “supersize vs superskinny” does not advocate anorexia, owing to anna richardson’s ridiculing of fad diets, e.g. baby food one, & her interview with the worldfamous anorexic, Isabelle Caro. Then there’s Dr Christian Jessen studying Xrays of underweight ppl, warning them bout the dangers of being underweight. Prime time TV this is. Pro Ana society? Dontthinkso.

    Will power certainly is involved in the healthy or unhealthy loss of weight.

    In my experience, my overweight friends are the laziest people I’ve ever met, they don’t have a lot of will power/motivation/self-discipline, SO overweight ppl & pro ana, no correlation, not in my view.

    It’s great MamaV’s helped this young woman above though, of course.

  20. Amanda says:

    I think that a lot of overweight people probably go to pro-ana sites looking for diet tips on how to lose weight quickly. Does this make them anorexic? No. Is this dangerous to their health? Yes. I do however think that people that are looking at these sites know that the info being given to them is dangerous. Maybe they are just so desperate they don’t care. Correlation? I think so.

  21. Leire says:

    Seems like you guys forgot something in your discussion; what’s one of the common bonds between the eating disordered on both sides (thin and fat), and alcoholics, drug addicts, etc.? Depression. They don’t feel accepted, so they try to substitute; doesn’t matter if you sub in starvation, food, alcohol, etc.; trying to sub anything for those emotions is going to lead to trouble.

  22. ibiteback says:

    My metabolism has been so screwed up by my anorexia that I have to restrict to ridiculous amounts just to not gain weight. I hate it because I think of this as a bulimic’s or overweight person’s problem. I also gained weight rapidly while on a medication which only caused me to restrict and stop taking the medication. But I do agree that overweight people who say they had anorexia makes me too scared to recover. At a day treatment program a mother of one of the patients was overweight but talked about her struggle with anorexia and to this day I think of her when I start to gain weight.
    I think that our society is pro-ana internally but anti-ana externally. Like actress talk about how awful eating disorders are even though they are scary skinny. TV shows only serve to glamourize eating disorders. When I watched them, the shockingly low weights made me think I didn’t really have an eating disorder because I wasn’t 60 something pounds. People hate fat people. If you’ve never seen a fat person be discriminated against you must live in some rural town because it is every where, in schools, malls, and buses.

  23. Sass1948 says:

    the only thing i now understand is that my true suspicions are confirmed; pro ana sites are filled with healthy or above weight people going through a phase.

    my obese friend lives in a city, as do I.

  24. Josie says:

    Sass – have you ever asked your obese friend if she’s ever suffered discrimination, either directly or indirectly? I find it hard to believe that a person can avoid it.

    I’m so glad i’m not friends with some of you IRL.

  25. Sarah says:

    This is the first time I’m commenting, although I’ve read all of mamaV’s posts. I’m diagnosed EDNOS, and clinically underweight. My best friend is severly overweight. And we feel so similar all the time. At meals when we wonder if people are looking at our plates–on the street when we bet people are calling us fatties. Please, ana girls: there are overweight girls who feel exactly as we do, we should feel their pain and suffering. We are no better than them.

  26. vive42 says:

    good comment, sarah.

    it’s hard though, because i feel like it’s important to reassure underweight eating disordered people that going into recovery does NOT mean they will become overweight or obese. i feel its important because that fear keeps people from getting help they may desperately need, and it’s also the truth.

    but at the same time we need to keep reminding everyone, obese or otherwise, that people who are overweight are not second class citizens and shouldn’t be treated that way by anyone, ever. and we also need to keep reminding everyone that sass1948 is a small minded judgemental idiot that doesn’t represent anyone’s feelings but her own.

    Vanessa

  27. Sass1948 says:

    didn’t realize i had to censor my thoughts on this blog…oh wait, i don’t.

    ahh name-calling, the last resort :-)

  28. Amanda says:

    I think that maybe the fear of becoming overweight through recovery is just an excuse for people to not try to recover. Most people that are extremely emaciated will not become obese. More than likely, they will be on the low average of normal. Part of treatment should be how to eat normally for your size and the weight you should be.

    I’m having an issue with the term pro-ana. Maybe it should be called pro-ed? Maybe the girl in the video wasn’t pro-ana, but was really pro-ed. Unless we know her, and know her full story, who are we to judge her? By writing nasty comments about her weight and whether or not she really had an ED is just plain out mean. We do not know her, and I hope she never reads this blog.

  29. Sass1948 says:

    I think writing nasty comments & name-calling is plain out mean, but speculation ’bout whether or not someone is pro anorexia based on their weight is freedom of speech.

  30. Amanda says:

    Speculating about someones ED based on their weight is not freedom of speech. It is judgmental. Overweight people are judge enough as it is. Is it possible for someone to be pro-ana, and not be anorexic? Just maybe there are people out there that think it is a person’s right to starve themselves, even though that person is not actively anorexic. What exactly are the qualifications one must meet to be considered pro-ana?

  31. Sass1948 says:

    no qualifications. all my opinion. shame you & a few others can’t deal with it without lowering.

  32. mamaV says:

    This post is indicative of the society we have bred.

    Why is it that women spend so much time ripping on each other?
    For goodness sake girls, here we have a kind, considerate individual, expressing a simple thought on a topic, and some choose to hone in on percieved flaws rather than listening to the words she is expressing.

    Do you ever stop and ponder why you hold on to your beliefs?
    I hope so, because I sure do. I waffle all over the place, sure some topics I am hard core….but I always reserve the right to change my mind.

    The anger expressed here is rather alarming- no?

    Why does it feel good to be mean to others?

    I just don’t get it. Especially in this case, totally uncalled for. I expected an intelligent, collective debate, instead I hear young women talking like old grandmas that are so set in their ways nothing is going to stop them.

    Take a breath will ya!?
    mamaV

  33. mamaV says:

    In case you missed the point of the video (or didn’t bother to watch it in full since you had your mind made up already)…

    This young woman took the time to record a video to express the fact that she was searching online for weight guidance, landed herself in a pro ana board of some sort, and was caught of guard.

    Thats it.

    Isn’t it kind of interesting to hear from someone who has never seen or heard about pro ana? I thought it was. She is typical of young women today, they are curious or they stumble upon pro ana stuff and most walk away, while others choose not to.

    We here are so absorbed in this stuff that its hard to be believe others don’t know the communities exists, and we forget how shocking it is to discover it.

    I think about when I visited my first proana site, I was scared because I really wasn’t sure if I wanted to even venture there, but I did.

    I was shocked that day nearly 2 years ago now, and I am glad to say I am still shocked. The impact of the discussion, images, and overall outlook on life still saddens me a great deal.

    -mamaV

  34. vive42 says:

    mamaV- i think either you or some of us misinterpreted the video. i took it to mean that she had participated in pro ana for some sustained period of time. you seem to think she found pro ana, looked around, and left in shock/horror. i’m not sure which of us is right but it didn’t come from not watching the video, she just never says exactly how long she stuck around the proanaverse.

  35. Mrs. B. says:

    This whole thread has kind of upset me. There are a lot of people on this board who are horribly indignant when someone is in any way judgemental, who are themselves INCREDIBLY judgemental.

    The gal in the video is curvy and womanly….maybe a little plump, but certainly not obese. She is in a weight range where she can hold a job, go to school, have relationships, bear children, maintain her mental health. To me, that is living.

    Being “perfectly” skinny, unable to have a period, become socially isolated, unable to work or go to school…..that sucks.

    Do not get me wrong. I understand that eating disorders are a disease, but I believe that they are a disease that is exacerbated by disordered eating.

    Some of you guys on this board might discover that you could be a boatload happier if you could get past the belief that smaller is better. I suspect that there are more happy heavy people than there are happy anorexics.

    I’m sure I’m gonna take it in the chops for this one.

  36. shelly says:

    I havent visited a pro-ana sight in probably about 5-6 years. Yesterday, after reading and watching this post I browsed through one. I could only look at one and not for very long. What used to bring me a sense of peace and hope and inspiration had left me angry and disgusted and scared.

    I really feel for many of these girls that are on there. but then in another way, I dont. Throwing pictures up on the internet of yourself in various positions to highlight bones is a cry for attention. I especially love the pics (and most of them are) of girls who take the picture themselves. Let’s face it…if you asked someone to take pictures of you while you sat in the bathroom and contorted this way and that way you would look stupid. And then try telling the person taking the picture that they are going to posted on a thinspo sight on the internet. I doubt it would go over well.
    I often wonder if these people have any friends or family at all. Personally, my fam and friends freaked out when I got thin. And if I dared to post pics on the computer they would have flipped. Like someone said…This is permanent.
    Poor people who are just surfing around for weight loss tips are sent to these sights. It is our responsibility for what we do and dont look at on the internet but if I was overweight and had no idea about good nutrition and exercise and stumbled upon these sights offerring a quick way to lose unwanted pounds I would probably give it a try. but that is just me….oh yeah, and thousands (maybe millions) of other people out there.

  37. Josie says:

    Sass – i think you’re being a bit hypocritical.
    You called fat people lazy, and lacking in motivation, willpower and self-discipline, and implied forcefully that those who are overweight cannot have EDs… so Vanessa called you a small minded judgemental idiot that doesn’t represent anyone’s feelings but her own. Seems fair to me.

    As we don’t know this particular lady’s height, weight or health it’s hard to judge, but i don’t think being overweight is much better than being anorexic, though being anorexic is certainly NOT better than being overweight.

    And as for the video – the impression i got was that the lady visited pro-ana sites on a frequent basis at some point in the past, and since leaving them as “recovered”… as opposed to recently discovering them.
    I think it’s also worth noting that years ago (5 or more) pro-ana sites were much more harmful and prominant than now.

  38. Amanda says:

    After reading MamaV’s posts, I went back and watched the video again. I have also thought about what I want to say for a while. I think by what she says in the video, one can not tell just how often she visited the sites, or how deep into it she got. She is just thanking MamaV for bringing attention to how dangerous these sites can be for someone who may be in a desperate or susceptable situation. I agree with her on that point, even if a don’t always agree with how the info is given.

    I remember the first time I went to a pro-ana site. I was not shocked at all. Maybe because it was nothing new to me. I had already tried all the tips and tricks. I do, however, think that it would shock my family if they knew what was on these sites and that I have visited them in the past.

    If I came off a judgmental or mean in any of my other posts, that was not my intention. I was just trying to say that we should stop judging each other. I for one am tried of spending my life worrying about what people think of me. Do they think I’m pretty, do they like me, am I thin enough? What matters is what I think of myself, but I just can’t seem to get that through my thick skull.

  39. valid-i says:

    Here, a well ordered video of the difference between eating disorder and disordered eating:

    I think MamaV, and the sweet young lady that made the response video, have an audience, and doing what they do, they might actually be able to save some mother’s daughter from disordered eating.

  40. Heidi says:

    I thought she had some great things to say until she said, “I got better, I mean, look at me, hello!” GRRRRRR! That pisses me off so bad. That everyone always thinks that a person that is overweight is better and has no eating disorder. That is what society is made to think and believes and believes that a person is less in danger because they are lets say 400 lbs. God, why can’t the world see that a binge eater and an anorexic are both killing themselves with food? One with it and one without it. I am so frustrated that because I don’t restrict and purge that I am not seen as an important sick person. Whatever…..maybe one day after I am dead from stuffing away all my feelings with food!!

  41. may says:

    hey, i just wanted to know how to send you a message, mamav?? cuz i sent you a message on myspace a little while back and i see you have logged on but havent responded. i realize its probably not the main way to reach you so i was just gonna comment here to see if i could get an answer to my question i sent you. thanks:)

    p.s. i am “nobodywillfindme” on youtube.

  42. may says:

    AHHH i said “myspace” i meant “youtube”. sorry.

  43. Josie says:

    Heidi – good point. I don’t think being overweight is a good illustration of “recovery”.

  44. Mrs. B. says:

    Heidi,
    But the lady in the video is not 400 pounds.
    Let’s look at someone more like, say, Rachel Ray. Rachel Ray is taking all kinds of crap for being “overweight”. Rachel ray is radiant, energetic, effective, talented and she ENJOYS FOOD! Rachel Ray is not disordered. Her brain is also not starved. She’s living a GREAT life.

    Yet there are people on this board who would be more horrified to be built like Rachel Ray than to die an anorexic. That is just plain wrong-headed. Thinking that suffering from starvation, and losing your mental health is somehow better or more righteous than gaining 20 pounds is just wrong.

  45. Sass1948 says:

    to josie, i never said any of those things about anyone but my own friends, who readily admit their faults too! with a smile on their faces. u pick on mamav all the time & ur just choosing to pick on me now. leave me alone. stop responding to me. i dont care what u have to say about me becuz u dont know me.

    not to josie
    and for the record, i am anorexic so excuuuse me for seeing myself & others as overweight.

  46. Josie says:

    Sass – Reread your first comment. And what was the point in saying those things about your friends when we’re talking about fat people in general… isn’t it irrelevent then if you’re now saying it’s nothing to do with being overweight?
    If people pick on others then i’ll pick them up on it. You’ve done it, MVs done it.

    And being anorexic doesn’t or shouldn’t warp your perception of others. It’s “Disturbance in the way in which one’s body weight or shape is experienced” not “Disturbance in the way in which one experiences everyone elses weight”.

  47. Sass1948 says:

    because i am speaking for myself & my own experience. what vive 24 said is true I do not represent anyone else’s view but my own. duh. makes sense to me too josie.

    why mention it in the first place? because I think losing weight takes willpower & no one overweight, that i know of, has such willpower!

  48. vive42 says:

    sass1948, all you are doing is displaying your own distorted thinking as an anorexic.

    anorexia is not about willpower. it is a mental disease. anorexics have no willpower- they’re scared to death of food and gaining weight. if it were about willpower they wouldn’t be killing themselves. anorexics are completely out of control and have no willpower or ability to just “snap out of it” because they are mentally ill.

    that means you sass, and me too. my anorexic phases have been the most out of control i’ve ever been in my life. willpower had nothing to do with it. only your distorted thinking makes you believe that.

    Vanessa

  49. Mrs. B. says:

    There are great places to apply willpower, Sass…studying, working hard to attain a goal -like curing cancer. Applying intense willpower toward controlling weight with the goal of disappearing seems like a huge waste of human capacity, and certainly is not admirable. I have empathy, but not admirationl.

  50. Josie says:

    Losing weight takes willpower, but being anorexic doesn’t. Existing as an anorexic is easy – it just happens. The willpower comes in when you decide to recover and have to fight against it.

    I think it’s true that some people who are overweight lack willpower. But only some. Many have EDs, many are ignorant about healthy eating (and it is hard nowadays, with mixed messages everywhere), and many just can’t afford to eat good food. In the USA obesity is a financial issue, with people just unable to afford nutritious food.

  51. Sass1948 says:

    then we disagree (again, duh) because i think it is about will power. and may i just “imply forcefully” (what a stupid phrase. i prefer “state”) that i am not generalizing. i speak for myself & this means: my own experiences, my way of thinking, just me.

    anyway am over this now. boring. have a great day everyone!

  52. Josie says:

    K, Sass, prove to me you have willpower. Show me you have the willpower to eat and gain 2lbs this week. Bet you don’t have the willpower to do that.

  53. Sass1948 says:

    you’re very demanding. demanding i explain myself, demanding i prove myself. I guess all to prove a point? and ur not listening. i told u we disagree & that i dont care what u think of me.

  54. Mrs. B. says:

    Josie….darn good point.

    Darn smart woman. Look what happens to those brain cells when you feed them :)

    Any new art lately?

  55. shelly says:

    Josie-
    I agree with mother hubbard (totally kidding). It takes a hell of a lot more will power to recover than it takes to starve yourself or engage in other ED behaviors.

    I have learned that true friends, family, and unshallow, non-superficial people dont give a s*** what type of body you have. Because if you are skinny and have not an ounce of personality people arent going to “like” you. I have yet to see a peppy and energetic anorexic/bulimic.

    Put that energy that you use trying to obtain an untainable goal to better use. It ‘s not easy. but in the long run it is going make life a lot easier.

    Some people might think they have everything when they are engaged in their Ed, but really they have nothing. I wish everyone could see that.

  56. Josie says:

    Mrs B – i do!! This is my latest http://josies-art.livejournal.com/5910.html

    Shelly – you’re so right. Two of my best friends are overweight and i think they’re beautiful wonderful people, the fact they’re overweight means nothing. And haha, they’re a hell of a lot healthier than me! And another close friend is severely anorexic – i love her to pieces, but it tears me apart to see her so sick, and to have to help her climb the stairs..

  57. Faye says:

    Whilst battling with my own thoughts about anorexia, which I am managing to control at the moment, I visited one of these Pro Ana sites. I found your blog after having written a blog about my current anorexia crisis, and looking at the tags, and decided to have a look at one. To be quite frank, even I think they are silly. I am trying so hard NOT to become anorexic, and these sites are rubbish. Especially the Pro Ana LiveJournal. I have been discouraged to visit sites like these, but about emetophobia instead. I have a mixed opinion. To someone who is anorexic and WANTS to be anorexic, it provides support as they can talk to other people about it and encourage each other, but for someone who wants to recover or is struggling to not become anorexic its awful. It depends who you are I suppose. Lots of anorexics will say its good, and people like you, say its just encouraging.

    Anyway, I think that Pro Ana will not help me in any way, I will not get involved. I shall get REAL support!

  58. Aileb says:

    RE: “Why is it that women spend so much time ripping on each other? “MamaV

    MamaV, here is some info on the woman in the video.

    She is a military wife, who

    suffers with BDD, depression

    and EDNOS, is off her

    medication and her friend (who

    suffered from an eating disorder

    is dying of cancer-with less than

    a week to live?) The young

    woman in the video spent her

    time spoon feeding her.

    I watched all her videos -where she contemplates getting sick again, talks about suicide, tries to show us her funny side, says that she was better and talks about missing her husband.

    I watched her videos. Did you?

    I think that you should have done some research on her mental stability before you put her on display.

    I do realize that people have not been singing your praises but are you really that so hard up for good press?

    YOU put her in this position.

    What did you expect? I honestly don’t think you know your readers.

    Sigh!!! Weren’t you the one that showed us that little chart where most of your readers are coming from pro-ana sites; most of us are not recovered yet.

    I think that you were only looking for someone, anyone who fit the kind of story you were after. {That pro-ana websites are to blame for this death} The only problem is that the story you’re telling doesn’t fit what she says.

    She didn’t visit the sites once and walk away in shock and horror. She admits she still looks at thinspiration.

    We are all adults here, free to walk away at any point. She was not recruited!!

    I was a member of most of the now inactive and pretty hardcore sites for the past 5 years. Nobody comes up from under you’re bed and pries the cookie away. I only wish!

    Hence, the stereotype…
    Hence, the anger….

    Proana websites aren’t a cult. The little red string and mantra can only take you so far if you don’t have a predisposition for it.

    SO on to your question, “why do we turn on each other? Why do we not agree?”

    Anorexia makes the words seem less harsh and the view is always narrow when she’s got you in her grasp.

    What should we agree upon? (avoiding conflict is one of the personality traits of this disorder)

    That you’re doing good by exposing these sites, they are dangerous. So what then?

    When they’re shut down and everyone is singing your praises. I am still going to be that sad little statistic in the corner of this blog.

    Wishing it wasn’t snack time, that it wasn’t so tense around here, and that “getting better” was looked more appealing.

    Exposing and fixing the “problem” are very different. My bones popping out or bulimic stressed body are exposed. You see that’s the sick twisted part of this disorder-the needing to show everyone just how sick we can get. Nope, don’t need any help in that department. Thank-you (sorry, needing to please, another personality trait of this disorder)

    So why waste our time exposing it, when we could be working on fixing the problem?

  59. Josie says:

    Aileb – i’m so glad you made that comment. I hope even more that that lady doesn’t see these comments, especially considering she suffers from an ED. One video is not enough to make some kindof judgement, and i’m glad you had the decency to explore further and enlighten us.

  60. Jerri says:

    (This is referring to a post on ‘Ana & Mia’.)
    Hey.You haven’t replied. I guess you don’t care about me. After all, It’s only been a half a month. I don’t care what you say anymore. I realized something- You shouldn’t be writing about us like we’re crazy, ‘cuz we’re not. No, you should be supporting us in our search for help. You say you’re a recovered anorexic. You should be HELPING us! Here’s something I wrote for you a few weeks ago, I was really pissed- – – – – – –

    U
    R
    A
    Bitch!

    U
    Need
    To
    Shut
    Your
    Fucking
    Mouth
    And
    Pull
    The
    Stick
    Out
    Of
    Your
    Ass!

    And,
    Yeah,
    I
    AM
    The
    12
    Year
    Old
    Who
    Wrote
    In
    February!

    I
    Don’t
    Care
    If
    I’m
    Sick!

    I
    Want
    To
    Be
    THIN!

    In
    Fact
    I
    Want
    To
    Be
    So
    Thin
    That
    When
    I
    Turn
    To
    The
    Side
    I
    Disappear
    Other
    Than
    My
    Boobs
    And
    Ribs.

  61. Sass1948 says:

    “And being anorexic doesn’t or shouldn’t warp your perception of others. It’s “Disturbance in the way in which one’s body weight or shape is experienced” not “Disturbance in the way in which one experiences everyone elses weight”.”

    again, unfair. this is YOUR experience & your interpretation & something you’ve read. it doesn’t apply to anything.

    i think all that butt kissing from the hubbard is inflating someone’s gigantic ego. hear that? I THINK.

  62. kelly says:

    lol good luck having boobs at that point of starvation…lol…be like pancakes

  63. Josie says:

    kelly – LOL i was thinking that! And most 12-year-olds don’t have much in that department already.

    Jerri – i think if mamaV had an ED, the most incredible thing she could do is guide others in recovery using her experience. People flock to her because they believe she might. Unfortunately, mamaV doesn’t, which is a great shame.

    Sass – butt kissing and inflated ego, ahahahaaa, i don’t think so. I’d like to see what Mrs B says about that.
    I’ve had anorexia. I know what anorexia is. Millions of people have had anorexia. And there’s been a lot of discussion about anorexics fat-bashing, and most anorexics do not have a distorted view of others, only of themselves. And if you really do have a distorted view of others weight and are aware of it, isn’t it a good idea to keep quiet about it, to avoid offending people? Same with your opinions about fat people actually.

  64. Sass1948 says:

    right, so everyone’s the same because u say so! now i get it. not. i didn’t “fat bash” (wha a cruel phrase) i said my overweight friends don’t have willpower.

  65. kelly says:

    i think that if the people on this forum had come together under different circumstances then it would be an awesome support group.

    unfortunatly, mamaV is all about pointing fingers and blaming. personally i think mamaV is going about her mission to change body image all wrong…more positive posts and less “ok girls here is something you can blame instead of looking inside yourselves and seeing why you are screwed” would be nice. but it’s not my blog and mamaV chooses a different battle in the multi faceted fight against eating disorders.

    i read the comments and for the most part i think everyone is lovely in their own way and brings something but somehow it seems we all tend to fight each other. maybe because it is a bit of relief from constantly fighting ourselves and we can keep thinking that the cause of our problems is “out there”. really when i start to think about the root of my problems i stop…because i am scared as hell to confront them..

    just my bit. about the vid…well it was kinda lackluster imho. didn’t really offer much but gave mamaV hope that her blog is changing something. maybe it is…but somehow i don’t think it is doing anything for the people that post here.

  66. Mrs. B. says:

    Sass is a perfect example of the dichotomy that exists in the personality of the eating disordered. An incredible ability to be bitchy with an incredible sensitivity toward being bitched AT.
    This is one of the coolest things about my daughter feeling better. You can actually have real conversations again with her.

    In fact, she keeps saying some pretty funny stuff.
    Yesterday she said that although she has been in therapy for the past two months, she tries very hard to remember that the rest of us have not been in training for “How to Talk to the Eating Disordered”. People say some crazy stuff to her. She deals with it better.

    Sass, I think you need a smoothie and a nap.

  67. Mrs. B. says:

    P.S. How was that, Josie?

  68. Mrs. B. says:

    Josie,
    Thanks for posting your art. I can’t believe that all of those very different works came from the same artist. What were you thinking about in the blue/hands piece?

  69. Mike says:

    Shelly,
    I like your view that you posted above.

    mike

  70. Mike says:

    Wait everyone!!!

    >>>>>>SHIELDS UP>>>>>>>>>>

    Ok, now you can fire away at me

  71. Lizabeth says:

    we’ve all felt like shit before. you all keep saying you wish mamav would be more proactive in guiding us all to recovery but are you forgetting the power that WE have? obviously we can all voice our opinions and offer support or we can tear each other down and invalidate each others’ experiences.

    i think the most important gift my eating disorder (or disordered eating, i don’t want to be presumptuous) has given me is the ability to understand this kind of suffering and, on a deeper level, the plague that is facing our society and targeting women specifically (although this is changing rapidly). most of us reading this blog are women– we’ve been socialized to destroy each other rather than unite, and eating disorders are an extension of the oppression and objectification that we face; they are also a highly successful tool to isolate us from one another.

    so… what the fuck are we doing? (pardon my language)

    why don’t we take our power back and stop waiting for somebody else to do it for us?

  72. shanzeee says:

    back to that point b/w sass & josie about willpower…
    anorexia doesn’t take willpower, recovery does.
    and those who think otherwise are only fooling themselves.

    tell me you don’t agree…

  73. Aileb says:

    “anorexia doesn’t take willpower, recovery does.
    and those who think otherwise are only fooling themselves.” Shanzeee

    thank you for putting this up.
    LOL this is the very first time that I sit to watch a recovery video.

    I use to think (before today) that anorexia takes willpower
    but after reading the comments and trying to recovery;

    I’m realizing that it’s the other way around.

    I can so easily go without eating but eating this apple -when everything in me is saying “no, not today,” is so much harder.

    Keeping it down, now that’s willpower!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “why don’t we take our power back and stop waiting for somebody else to do it for us?” Lizabeth

    This is so cool, someone is on track to what I posted earlier…

    So why waste our time exposing it, when we could be working on fixing the problem?

    Jerri, are you ok?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    At first, I was disgusted that
    MamaV was picking on 12 year olds and putting someone who isn’t stable on display.

    But I’m starting to question things that I knew for a fact..hmmm maybe, that’s how MamaV operates.

    She sets the fire, fans the flames,

    and exposes it. Then we

    are left to argue on how to put

    out the fire. Some of us get

    sidetracked and argue

    how it started or insist that it’s

    not a really a fire that needs

    putting out. Some of us

    aren’t ready to put it out

    because it’s too cold.

    Some of us just sit down with

    an apple in our hand waiting for

    MamaV to put it out. After all,

    she exposed it… heheheh

  74. Amanda says:

    After reading the post by Aileb, I decided to watch her other videos. I was truely saddened by what I saw. I saw someone who has suffered greatly, and though she may say she has gotten better, still contemplates getting sick again.

    I noticed that in the comment section of her response to the internet suicide video, MamaV directed her to this site to check it out. I truely hope that she has not visited this site. Nothing good can come from her seeing this.

    I agree with Aileb. MamaV, you should have watched her other videos before posting this one on your site. Maybe you did and decided to post it anyways.

  75. Aileb says:

    One day she’s aiming at the modeling agencies, then the rich parents, now her followers.. who is gonna be next?

    Why is there such a need to blame and expose?

    Pretty soon she’ll be pointing inward.

    So I guess MIKE was right, put you’re shields up.

    I bet it gets boring being the voice of reason so sometimes, she like to have fun with us and mess with our heads.

    Who was more devoted than me? Who was sicker than me? So she askes to hear about our “stupid ass” battle with disorder.

    Yeah, responding to that post didn’t make me feel better. I felt kinda of used.

    I proved her point that we are stupid if do those things and I guess that’s all that mattered to her.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I ate the apple- it was hard.

    I kept it down -that’s willpower.

    I am keeping from exercising or freaking out-THIS IS CONTROL.

  76. vive42 says:

    go aileb!

    i’m totally psyched that you and others have finally had that realisation- for an anorexic EATING takes willpower!!! starving is the easy part.

    makes the whole thing almost worthwhile. i’ll even happily let josie take credit although i think if you look back you might find i’m the one that said it first 😉

    Vanessa

  77. Mrs. B. says:

    And the angels sing, Allelujah. Amen.

  78. valid-i says:

    “for an anorexic EATING takes willpower!!! starving is the easy part.”
    That is true, but what does that say about pro ana forums then, are they, after all, for the wannarexic? … Or are they to help the anorexic to keep the apple down?

  79. Leire says:

    Fear. It seems that one of the most important factors in all of this is fear.

    “You either lose your fear or spend your life with one foot in the grave.” -Over the Rhine

    Fear can clutch you and hold you immobile, like a full-body cast. Fear can occupy your mind, pushing everything else aside, so that you can’t focus on what it is you want to do, all you can focus on is the fear.

    I never really understood the way that fear holds us down until this winter. This winter I began snowboarding; learned the basics first, then started putting the basics together so I could start to turn, but I found that I kept falling. I kept falling because I was afraid to fall; the fear would keep me preoccupied, it would keep me from committing to the turn, and so I would fall every time I tried. Falling hurt, which made me more afraid, and it became a snowballing thing, where I became so afraid that I would just sit in the snow, pondering my fear.

    Fortunately, I stuck with it (I had a few friends to encourage me) and I realized that the only thing holding me back was the fear. I started trying to push the fear out of my mind by just focusing on the turns I was making, and it slowly began to work. Sure, I still made mistakes and fell, but as I let the fear go, I was able to learn, I was able to grow as a snowboarder, and as I learned and grew, I fell less and less. Well, tomorrow is my last time for this season, and I still fall, but now it’s usually because I’m trying tricks and jumps.

    Through snowboarding I have come to realize that fear can be a huge hindrance; if you hold it tight and close it will grow, push out your ability to consider things in a well reasoned manner, maybe even take over. If you want to grow as a person, you have to let go of the fear and take risks.

  80. shelly says:

    It takes a lot of willpower to recovery, but I also thinks it takes willpower to resist getting better (just not nearly as much)

    you are right Leire, FEAR is a huge part of battling an ED. But everyone has fear we with ED’s just manifest in a different way. Because I was so scared of living and not knowing what life was all about I channeled all that fear into engaging in an ED and when I ventured into the unknown of recovery FEAr is what made me want to relapse so often. But instead of running this time, I walked (sometimes ran) through the fear and found although it was terrifying at the time I can look back at the fear I faced and be proud of myself.

    Glad to hear you are snowboarding!!! I love to snowboard. It sucks at first but it was so fun when I got the hang of it. Way to face your fear!!

    great post, by the way.

    shelly

  81. Sass1948 says:

    the hub ur wrong. i felt attacked, so i defended myself. this is nothing about being b*itchy & not being able to handle being b*tched about. and as IF am going to drink a smoothie….OR nap for that matter

  82. Mike says:

    Aileb understands. Thank you for being bold and speaking up

    Mrs B,
    You really should stop making these vague references to God, Prayer, Angels etc.

    Your religious comments are rather shallow.
    How can you criticize the sharing of scripture, as I have done, (You call it “spam”) on the one hand, yet use God vaguely on the other, when it suites your purposes?

    Mrs B, without writing out the scripture passages, you couldn’t understand the point I’m making.

    So, remember what you had written about your daughter studying scripture, philosophy, books etc for the sake of knowledge? Here is a good scripture passage for you and your daughter to read: 1 Corinthians Chapter 1 verse 17-25 as for your comment of all to have a “peaceful night”, read John 14 verse 27. I pray that all have true peace.

    As for your calling for prayer, read the whole passage on the Lord’s prayer. It tells you how (There is a prerequisite that has to be met “first” before God will even listen and provide) to pray to God. Matthew Chapter 6 (read the whole passage Mrs B) and Mark Chapter 11 verses 23-26 and more d

    Finally Mrs B, read 2nd John verse 9-11
    I could go on and give you much to read; since you claim to be a follower of Jesus Christ (You said you were a Christian but you never use His name nor share the gospel/scripture with these beautiful suffering souls) but we don’t hear one thing where you share Jesus’ word here. I do find that you care for these woman and support them, which is Christlike by way of doing as he did while here on earth in human form) but what about what He has said? Words? Scripture?

    I find your actions ironic

    I say this, because I’m answering your direct comment to me.

    As for mamav (and those who like to be critical and only want to spouse and/or hear their own views), I think it is very arrogant of you to stifle my sharing (remember I have a personal experience too; both from being a victim of sexual abuse, a cancer patient and a guy who came from a career, where I dealt with death and its effects) with these woman an idea for a solution to their healing. Your comments, and those of Mrs B, are as if you speak for everyone here. Some don’t wish to hear what I have to say (I wonder sometimes if this website is practicing China’s censoreship policies) BUT some do. I “pray” that all will be healed of this devilish plague that you gals are going through. I wish to see you have healthy happy lives. But remember this, my message is for everyone (it goes beyond ED)because it goes to the matter of eternity, and not just the now.

    Finally, I still care and love you Mrs B and mamav

    >>>>>>>>>Shields UP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Fire away.

  83. Mrs. B. says:

    Sass, many of us felt you were being very judgemental about someone based on their weight. The whole valuation of people based on their physical body is really shallow, whether that body is large or small. You were not attacked. That mentality was being attacked – by women who are trying to recover, and who need to get past that kind of thinking.

    I think that some really interesting comments have been posted about a more substantive definition of willpower since your original post. I hope that you will take a minute and study them. Vanessa, Aileb, Shelly, Josie…you guys never cease to amaze me.

    Mike, God never told you to quote scripture to the hurting, he asked you to minister to them….to feed his flock…to share your testimony, giving Him the glory. It has been my experience that people respond to testimony and love. Everyone here knows that I spend a considerable part of my day in scripture. They know that I believe that the Word of God, which has been provided for them through the Bible will provide them with solid ground upon which they can build their houses. I have shared with everyone how my daughter’s life is being turned around, not just from good medical care, but good medical care that is grounded by faith.

    When you minister to the sick, you heal them. When you minister to the hungry, you feed them. When you minister to depressed and hopeless women, you are THERE for them, and you let them know that you believe that if they seek God, He will help them. Seeking Him means spending time in prayer and the Word, obviously, but I will guarantee you that it will be rare that someone will sit and contemplate on the Word when it appears on a non-religious blog. It will be scrolled through and avoided, whereby I say the poster has turned the sacred into the spam.

    Mike, people here know where they can find a Bible. You might not know this, but women with Eating Disorders tend to have very high IQs.

    If you would like to share your personal testimony about how God has met your need, I think that people would like to hear that.

  84. Mike says:

    Again,
    You speak in vagueness Mrs B. The world in full of “good” people doing good things. My spouting scripture is not empty. Are you are Christian or just a good person?

    If we were only to do good things, then why did Jesus come to the world. You aren’t giving them the whole story. Why is it that I gave you scripture that went right the the heart of the matter with you and you have not given any back that supports your position. It’s because what I gave you, you can’t dispute. I didn’t write it. Yes, minister to the sick, the poor, the imprisoned etc but you don’t give food only, you feed them the word. Can you quote me the passage where what you have said, is without the sharing of the gospel? As for your “I guarantee that it will be rare that someone will sit and contemplate on the Word when it appears on a non-religious blog” then give me your backup to this position. Jesus came and ministered to those in need and preached the gospel to them, not the “religious” folks that claimed they had God. These are the very people who are crying out to find God. You could be sharing so much with them. You are just sharing Mrs B’s glory and not Gods. Give them the gospel of forgiveness (that is two way) and love and hope and redemption. Its by hearing the word Mrs B. Do you need me to go find that passaage about hearing (and doing) and sharing that here too. Noboby has heard a peep out of you on scripture. Ok, if you don’t want to “spam” it here (I just took a marker and crossed out Bible and wrote SPAM on it) then at least give them passage names, chapters, verses etc to go look into on their own. That’s also part of our being witnesses—in Word and in Deed. By the way, what church do you go to? Is Jesus Christ your Lord and Saviour? Have you been born again? Of course you know where that term is in the Bible. Shall I quote it here. Thank you for being “kind” (the world is full of kind people) but be Christian first—Word and Deed.

    Your in Jesus Christ,
    Mike

    As far as sharing my experiences, have you not read what I wrote?

  85. Mike says:

    I can’t believe what I’m hearing:

    “Mike, God never told you to quote scripture to the hurting…”

    Unbelievable Mrs B
    Simply unbelievable

    The whole New Testament is just that. To spread the gospel to the world by Word and Deed.

    Give these girls more!

    Stop being so vague.

    Mike

  86. vive42 says:

    mike- if someone was dying of thirst would you give them a bible or a drink of water? which would be more likely to lead to their salvation?

    i would guess that the water might keep them alive long enough to give them a chance to one day find jesus. while the bible would be utterly worthless since they would die before it gave them any benefit.

    but thats just me, and i’m not a christian so maybe you can pour me a nice cold glass of bible?

    vanessa

  87. Mike says:

    Vanessa, you have food all around you and you puke it up.
    Jesus says he gives life and life more abundently.
    It’s about God and the spiritual part of who we are. If you aren’t getting both, then you are still lacking.
    Also, let’s say that you are about to die, what do I give you then?

    So, I’ll stop over with food when you are hungry.

    Mike

  88. shelly says:

    Mike-

    i agree with Mrs. B. Most of us on this forum know where to find a bible and some people on this forum actually might read it.

    Also, most people know what treatments are available for ED’s and should they go the christian route, more power to them.

    I am sooooo turned off by your religious posts. I dont even read them anymore. It is almost worse than having missionaies knock on my door.

    The topic of this post isnt about religion. It is about a girl and her experience with pro-ana sites. Did you even watch the video? I think mamav told you as well that it isnt appropriate for you to keep throwing bible quotes. I understand you have your views and your right to post, but maybe finding another forum would be a better fit for you.

    seriously, dude….it is getting old.

    shelly

  89. Mike says:

    Skip reading what I write then.

    I find it strange that you read it and respond.

    I don’t try to trick you. I use the name “Mike”

    Just don’t read it then.

    PS: Don’t take my not responding back right away as some victory; I have to run errands.

    Love,
    Mike

  90. kelly says:

    motherlove gone…mike in

    will this forum ever not include some ridiculous bible spouter?

    i skip over the biblical posts…except when i need to get myself to sleep

  91. Will Power says:

    I defy anyone on this board to find me someone who has will power in all areas of life. Saying people who are overweight have no willpower is incorrect. For the same reasons that were already listed–eating disorders, incorrect information about food, a culture that has too much access to too much junk. Even if none of those are true, the person has no eating disorder, has all the knowledge, and knows better than to go to fast food all the time … so what?

    Do we make judgments on their abilities, their laziness, because of their weight?

    I hope all the will power people have straight A’s, perfect teeth, perfectly clean living spaces, volunteer in their spare time, don’t smoke or drink caffeine to excess, never hit the snooze button, and can excel at just about anything put before them.

    If you can, I wonder how long you can keep up with that. I used to enjoy perfectionism too. I’m still learning to live with my failures from “not having enough will power.” Or is it just from being human?

  92. Sass1948 says:

    “Sass, many of us felt you were being very judgemental about someone based on their weight. The whole valuation of people based on their physical body is really shallow, whether that body is large or small. You were not attacked. That mentality was being attacked – by women who are trying to recover, and who need to get past that kind of thinking.”
    Could care less. That’s their opinion on my opinion. So what.

    as for will power. no one has said overweight people dont have will power. i mentioned the overweight ppl in my life, so far, lack will power to lose this weight.
    where this idea that ALLL overweight ppl lack willpower, comes from, i dont know. because i do not generalize about anyone. facts right.

  93. Will Power says:

    You generalize about your friends. I’m not sure that I said you said ALL people. Fact check me and I’ll apologize.

    Are you qualified to make judgments about your friends like you have?

    Do they sit around and make judgments about the areas of your life where you lack will power?

  94. Mrs. B. says:

    Mike,
    I am an evangelical Christian, who was raised a Methodist, but was full-immersion baptized and saved in an evangelical church.

    Jesus did not preach the gospel. He lived the gospel. The apostles preached it.

    Mike, quoting scripture to the unsaved is like speaking in tongues:

    I Corinthians 14
    16 – Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

    17 – For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

    19 – Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

    23 – If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

    Mike, I appreciate your faith, but you seek an awful lot of dissension with another Christian. What exactly is that about?

    I am telling you that your references to scripture are not only being passed over, but they are becoming an annoyance for people who really need the Good News. Can you consider that what you are doing is not turning people toward God but against him?

    MamaV/All – Sorry.

  95. Sass1948 says:

    WOW, yet another boring attack. am not generalising bout those ppl i know. it’s fact. we discuss their lack of willpower. am repeating them. am simply not giving anymore details on them so it may seem a generalization to you. by the way, josies already done this so go away its boring now.

  96. Mrs. B. says:

    Will Power. Great Post. Sheesh. I guess I’m a mess. My closets aren’t colorcoded, My taxes are in a pile on my desk, I need to clean out my car…..ohmigosh. My BMI is great, but I clearly have no willpower. Heehee. Perfectionism is really a curse. Good enough is good enough!

  97. Sass1948 says:

    I made my comment & now a lot of posts are about willpower instead of mamav’s post.

    I feel the anger towards my comment is amazing. I also feel a lot of you choose to not accept to my explanation, but attack me anyway, so my conclusion is it’s your problem with the comment for your own personal reasons & nothing to do with me.

    Having defended myself sufficiently yesterday, I refuse to spend today doing the same.

    I maintain my original post/thoughts about the woman in the youtube vid. I maintain my opinion of the overweight ppl in my life.

    As I am bored with defending myself against pedantic individulas & I have nothing more to say on this particular post, I will not return.

  98. Josie says:

    Mrs B – very good :). Don’t feel you have to defend your faith to Mike. You know you’re a good Christian, so does everyone else here (except Mike). Vanessa makes a brilliant point on this. Many people on this board are not Christian (including myself), and a true Christian should show love and care to all people, whatever their faith. The very nature of Mikes posts excludes all non-Christians, and they mean nothing, less than nothing in comparison to yours.
    When my mum was in hospital for a bone marrow transplant to treat leukaemia, a volunteer from the chaplaincy came around. When she introduced herself to my mum my mum immediately told her she was aethist. The lady never mentioned God or the church again, but came to visit my mum every time she was at the hospital, which really touched my mum because she was so sick and so unhappy. Then when my mum was moved to a rehab hospital the lady sent her letters. And then when my mum died the lady sent our family a card, and again at the one year anniversary of her death. Now that’s a true Christian. I feel the impact you’re having here is like that of the chaplaincy lady. Now what use would some guy do, coming to my mum and reciting scriptures??

    Aileb – i think you’re awesome.

  99. Mrs. B. says:

    Thanks, Josie. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a “good” Christian.

    Romans 3:10 – There is none righteous, no, not one.

    Romans 3:23 – For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

    We’re saved, according to the Bible by grace alone.
    That’s one of my biggest comforts of my faith. Knowing how imperfect I am, I know that there is no faith that will make me or anyone else “Good enough” for heaven without someone who will intervene on my behalf.

    Mrs. B.

  100. Mrs. B. says:

    And Josie,
    I’m sorry about your mama. How old were you when she died?

  101. Josie says:

    Oh no, Mrs B, you’re ‘doing a Mike’!!!

    I was 18 when she died. 1 3/4 years ago now.

  102. Mrs. B. says:

    No, Josie. I’m not meaning to. I just hate the phrase “good Christian”. Let’s face it. One way or another, we’re all pretty wretched!

  103. Mrs. B. says:

    I can’t imagine my daughter losing me at this point in her life. Not that I’m so “great” (I just went over that!) but because I’m at least there. I am really sorry you lost your mom, Josie…especially when you were so young and so sick. You’ve been through a lot. How old were you when you recovered from your ED?

    I’m glad that you find some peace in your art. You are really a beautiful spirit.

  104. Mike says:

    Mrs B,

    You would do well to quote from 1 Corinthians Chapter 14 from the beginning. Paul calls for us to prophesy, which is to speak the Gospel. The speaking of tongues was an example to the gentiles,who spoke in their own foreign language. The apostles preached the gospel (Thats what I’m asking you to do) to the multitude in their own foreign language. That was an example to them of God’s power; that God could send these apostles to them and to prophecy/preach the Gospel to them in their own language. I do appreciate your 1:09 pm post. Thats what people need to hear. I would have liked to see the name of “Jesus” used instead of the pronoun “someone”

    Look, I’m not trying to be mean to you folks. I’m a rotten sinner, that was sexually abused by another rotten sinner. I could have harboured hatred my whole life and continued in distrust of women; never wanting to get close to them. I was shown what God’s love is and understood His forgiveness towards me. I would have been a hypocrite, if I didn’t forgive and love others to. I do the things you are mentioning Josie. But it’s to none effect if we professing Christians didn’t tell you /preach the Gospel. Mrs B, you are right, Jesus didn’t preach the Gospel. He lead it and the apostles preached it and lived it too. They preached what they observed Jesus doing and repeated what He had said. Did Jesus wander around living and not speaking? He gave the New Testament-In Word and in Deed. You asked why I direct this comments towards you? It’s because you could be doing so much more for these people. It’s in the very definition of the phrase you used to define yourself “Evangelist” Christian. Let’s say that one of these beautiful souls lost their life tonight without having a relationship with Jesus, doesn’t that bother you? Be mad at me all. I wanted to bring to you something good. That was my heart. I watched “Thin” and that is how it started. I felt so bad. I had a feeling that Polly had taken her life. I looked and discovered this to be true. In that process of discovery, I ended up here. I wasn’t trying to preach only. My comments attest to that. But when you are a Christian, you have a desire to have others hear the truth and come under God’s love and to have a relationship that makes differences in your life and how you view and operate in the world. So, Good Friday is coming up. Then Easter Sunday. That whole event sums things up.

    Josie, I’m truly sorry about your mom. It was great to hear that good people came around. There are many here who are trying to express our support. Some in one way and some in others. I mean no harm here, only my desire to bring something good. It’s a blog and it is very hard to demonstrate that here. Can you please accept that I feel for you and all the others here.

    >>>>>>>>>>>Shields Up>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Love,
    mike

  105. Mike says:

    There is also a passage about shaking off the dust, in a town where you are not received, an moving on to spread the Gospel. It’s time to do so.

    God Bless you all,

    Mike

  106. Josie says:

    Mrs B – i don’t think anyone expects people to die until they’re really old. It’s one of those things that you think “won’t ever happen to me”. My mum was sick for 2 years, so it wasn’t surprising when it happened. At the beginning she’d been given a 30% chance.
    I did most of my recovery when i was 19. But it’s an ongoing process, so in some ways i’m still recovering, and in some ways i started long before.

  107. kim says:

    wow, you all make me tired. i feel sorry for the lady on the video she was stating her feelings and how she was looking for one thing and found another. i didnt even “see” her by weight i was listening to her words. how could i have the gall to judge her or anyone when i worry way to much that others will do to me what they did to her. makes me sad. i am proud of her for responding when she had something to say.

  108. Mrs. B. says:

    Kim,
    Simply and beautifully spoken. Knowing more about the woman from Aileb’s comments brought much greater depth to her video.

    One more statement sort of to Mike.

    There is a woman on this Board, who I admire greatly, who I believe exemplifies what Christ wants from us. That is Laura. Dear Laura, who gives her personal email account and her phone number to women who are feeling desperate at their most desperate moments.

    I have not done that for any of the women here, because my own family still needs a lot of my time.

    I just want you to know, Laura, that what you do every day here is truly special. You are a true example of a loving person. And for anyone who truly believes the Gospels of Jesus Christ, they know that above all, God is love.

    Mike, no offense, but this Board needs less of you and more of Him. And He is more like Laura. God Bless you , Laura.

    Love,
    Mrs. B.

  109. mamavision says:

    Gang:
    As you all well know, I don’t like to delete comments, so for now just scroll on by any biblical comments that offend you, as opposed to commenting, which is obviously encouraging Mike to continue bible thumpin.

    I don’t care for it either, nor to I think its appropriate – but freedom of speech is what blogging is all about.

    -mamaV

  110. vanity900 says:

    Okay, about my weight comment.

    When you go “hardcore” anorexic you can permantly damage your gland and metablism. yeah i most likely misspelt that, but you get my point. as for i shouldn’t be scared of getting fat, scuse me thats how i am im terrified of getting fat. some people can be comfortable if they’re fat and im never going to be one of them, i get called fat all the time i want it to END. you know how the peer abuse goes ladys im sure we’ve all had a tast of it…i know its dirty thinking but its how i am, il never be able to fix it.

  111. vanity900 says:

    OH and i forgot, i am an anorexic EDNOS. in short, fat anorexic so yeah im being a bit of a hypocrite.

  112. Amanda says:

    I know that MamaV wants us to move on, but I have not been home to have a chance to respond. In one of Mike’s posts he makes the comment that Mrs. B could be doing so much more for the people on this blog. I have to disagree here. I read Mike’s posts, but I skip over the parts that are scripture. Don’t get me wrong, I believe in God, but I don’t like feeling like I am being preached at. If Mrs. B wrote more scripture in her posts, I have a feeling a lot of us skip her posts also. I enjoy reading Mrs. B’s posts and I always look forward to what she has to say. I some times lurk in the forum (so uncool according to some people), and she always has a supportive and kind word to say to the girls on there. She truely wants the best for everyone here. So keep on keepin’ on Mrs. B.

  113. Amanda says:

    Just one more thing. I think it is really admirable of Mrs. B to spend time here helping people when she has been going through so much with her own daughter.

    Okay, I’m getting off my soapbox now.

  114. Mrs. B. says:

    Thanks, Amanda. Everyone likes validation….even moms.

    I appreciate you guys listening to stories about my daughter.

  115. Lauren says:

    Mrs. B,
    I’m a big, fat atheist, and I love your posts.

  116. Mrs. B. says:

    Lauren,
    I’m sure that you are beautiful, just broken like the rest of us.

    So OK. I’m in a very foul mood today.

    My daughter “sprung” on me that she got a labret and a tattoo. She says that she was fighting a purge the other day and the idea came to her that she couldn’t purge if she got her lip pierced. This impulsivity is driving me crazy. The tattoo is symbolically pretty cool, but it is BIG and right on her forearm. It is the Hebrew phrase that says, “Rise up little girl” from the story in the book of Mark where Jesus revives the little girl who is dead. Amazing symbolism. But we decided together that a labret was a bad idea because it is terrible for your gums and teeth.

    Also, we had decided that when she was able to be healthy enough to get through a semester of college successfully, we would go and get a small tattoo TOGETHER. Now understand. I am a “corporate” type. The thought of us getting a tattoo together really tickled her. Now she has broken that deal and I’m really hurt by that.

    She saw her psychiatrist yesterday, and they talked about her impulsivity….the doctor wants to put her on XANAX, which I think is a terrible idea – particularly if my college-aged daughter ever drinks. Xanax and alcohol can KILL you in combination.

    Ladies….help.

  117. kelly says:

    Oh Mrs. B…

    When i first read about the tattoo i thought cool! but then i read that you had a pact to get one together…and that is sad that she got one without you.

    About her logic about not being able to purge because of the lip ring…it doesn’t surprise me because sometimes the desperation to stop is so strong that we think external doings will help us quit…i have a couple facial piercings but still purge (i didn’t get them to stop me from purging but when i got them i was like hey…i don’t want to mess up my piercing). the best thing i think you can do is just reiterate when the impulses come over her that she can come to you and you will not make her ashamed of the desire. Facing the strong urge to purge alone is almost impossible.

    About the alcohol and xanax…i know it is dangerous but if it puts your mind to rest i have mixed alcohol and xanax in large quantites at a low weight and have made it through. Just make sure she knows the danger…if there is a party on friday night and she knows that then maybe skip the xanax…or talk to the doctor about an alternative…or better yet, the pharmacist…sometimes they are so much more helpful about the meds.

  118. Mrs. B. says:

    Kelly,
    Thanks.
    I think I will talk to a pharmacist. That is a great idea. My husband is a doctor, but they just do not have the training that a pharmacist does about meds.

    Xanax is horribly addictive. And the side effects of coming off the drug are awful. And my daughter has an addictive personality. What we do NOT need is another addiction.

  119. Josie says:

    Mrs B –
    Have you heard of Dialectal Behavioural Therapy? I’ve just discovered it and am considering it for myself. I think it has the potential to help with impulsivity. This site is good http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/
    I’d be really against her going on xanax too. Here it’s very rarely prescribed because it’s so addictive. Drugs are only a shortterm solution, and as i see it, i expect impulsivity is not a shortterm problem – impulsive traits are common amongst many with EDs. I think a therapy approach (maybe DBT or CBT) would be better, if your daughter doesn’t get therapy-fatigue that is! Thinking through her decisions in a balanced way is much better than popping pills.

  120. Mrs. B. says:

    Josie,
    You are a godsend, as always. Do you see how we might be getting together not of coincidence, but by design? Just a thought.

    I am going to ask her psychologist about DBT. This looks like something that she would really benefit from.

    I love you. <3

    Mrs. B.

  121. vive42 says:

    DBT is amazingly useful, i strongly recommend it.

    i’d never let anyone put me on xanax. it’s one of those creepy meds.

    but i must admit i worry about you and your daughter when you say things like “we decided” about what she should do about her piercing, etc. how old is she again? does she get to make any decisions on her own? might her impulsivity be an attempt to make decisions for herself the only way she can, in the moment, because every other decision she makes is made by “us” instead of just her?

  122. Mrs. B. says:

    Vanessa,
    Point well taken. I’m going to ponder on that one.

    It’s a hard road when you have a sick kid to walk the correct path between allowing independence and encouraging boundaries and responsible behavior. You can’t imagine how hard that is. Sounds like another family therapy session to me.

    Mrs. B.

  123. vive42 says:

    i can imagine how hard it is. things between my family and myself were so bad i spent a year homeless despite my family having a very sound financial footing. i couldn’t stand living at home and being treated like a “sick kid” and they couldn’t imagine any way of supporting me that didn’t involve making all my decisions for me and treating me like a cross between an infant and a criminal.

    i love my parents and they love me, but so many mistakes have been made on both sides- i’d hate to see the same damage happen in your family.

  124. Josie says:

    “cross between an infant and a criminal” LOL
    I identify with this in how i’m treated at college. Today i’m meant to be going to London. The students are all allowed off to go wherever they like, whatever galleries and museums. I’m not allowed to go “in my state” unless i have a patronising support worker who i dislike to look after me. Feels awful since i’m 20 and one of the oldest students on the course. As a result, i’m not in London, i’m in bed trying to stay warm, and wondering what to do.

  125. Mrs. B. says:

    Vanessa and Josie,
    But can you see how the cycle starts? It is hard to break when every time you allow for freedom some catastrophe occurs – overspending, overdrinking, car wrecks….blah, blah, blah. It is, in part, an equal responsibility of the patient to break the cycle.

  126. Mrs. B. says:

    Apparently, it’s NOT Xanax, but Buspar. Anybody know anything about it?

  127. vive42 says:

    does it matter whose “responsibility” it is? or is it more important to recognize the problem and find ways to work through it.

    i was trying to communicate in my last comment that i feel myself to be at least as much at fault in the breakdown of my relationship with my parents as they are. i think they’re very afraid of being blamed for my problems, and especially my dad seems to have no trust for me or respect for me as an adult.

    so i just try and avoid them as much as possible and avoid honesty with them since it only leads to more problems. it doesn’t matter who’s fault it is, really, does it? i’m happy for it to be entirely my fault- doesn’t change the fact that having a relationship with them is impossible for me.

    so my suggestion is you find some way to get through the completely justified feelings of anger and mistrust, for the sake of the relationship. or alternatively, expect the relationship to grow chillier and more distant.

  128. Mrs. B. says:

    Vanessa.

    Yep. I agree with all of that. Totally.

  129. Leni says:

    Concerning this debate I started to think about myself and found out: I am mean, arrogant, superficial, cynic, close-minded, and generally not nice when it comes to people and food. I think bad of people who are fat, of people who eat much (IMHO) or just sweets or fast food, of corpulent people who say “I feel good with my body” because I am sure they don’t and just pretend to be ok to avoid facing the problem that they actually have to diet, I find it disgusting to have to see fat people in the tube, the bus, on the streets, in the shopping mall. I’ve got many prejudices such as fat people lack discipline, control, a strong mind, health, and aesthetic sensation. Of course I also belong to these group of people, to the fat ones, so I am also not nice to myself.

    I always try to hold back my thoughts (and words!) when I have to talk to a fat person – or see one. Or see someone eating chocolate, or a burger, or french fries. BUt it’s hardly ever possible to not at least think “yuck!”.

    Am I a mean person now? Am I personally to blame for my distorted mind? If so – am I also personally to blame for not eating? I doubt that someone would attack me because I refuse food. But lots of people attack me because my point of view. Where’s the line between “this is the illness” and “this is you”? Don’t both examples come from the same source, which is ANA?

    http://pureana.blogspot.com/2008/03/devil-in-me.html

  130. Josie says:

    Leni – the good thing about you is you recognise your prejudices, and i don’t think you’d verbalise them in front of those who are fat or eating junkfood.
    Do you know where your prejudices come from? Like could it be the attitudes of someone else you adopted, for example? I’m curious. I think most people harbour them to some extent because our society breeds that kindof attitude quite subliminally.

    Where the line between the person and the illness is drawn is a hard question, and it’s one that distresses me greatly for much more serious reasons. Until very recently i experienced paranoid delusions, where i was convinced I was in massive danger – that someone was trying to hurt me or kill me. One day a few weeks ago i was curled up in the corridor at college in tears because i thought i was quite literally going to die – someone WAS going to kill me. I was terrified. I happened to have my knife in my bag (i’m an art student, we use knives all the time), so i held onto it. Someone saw i was having a weird moment and called a member of staff to see me. She saw i was holding my knife and asked me to hand it over – i refused and when she tried to take it i screamed and pointed it at her. When my psychiatric nurse, psychiatrist and doctor found out about the incident they were absolutely furious – i was shouted at, told it was “not acceptable”, “even when psychotic people know the difference between right and wrong” and told i was lucky i wasn’t in prison. My belief is that my actions were my illness, not me – Josie never threatens people with knives! But clearly the psychs thought differently.
    What do you think?

  131. shelly says:

    Josie-
    Like you I know I am not the person that sometimes i let others see. It is my illness. I look back at things and I realize that my actions were not congruent with the person I really am. At times it is almost scary because my anxiety and depression and all that other crap lead me to do things I normally would never do. My team oftn gets frustrated as well, but I keep telling myself that they havent experienced what I am going through. I take what they say personally and their words leads me to think even less of myself and become even more depressed. It is sort of a vicious cycle. I am not sure what is behind these actions because according to my team it must be something emotional or something must have triggered it. I understand that to a certain extent but what if it is just faulty wiring in the brain? Who knows…In the meantime I keep practicing my coping skills.

    shelly

  132. Leni says:

    Josie – I really don’t know where it comes from. Neither my mother nor my father ever told me “fat is ugly”. Or the boyfriends I had through the years. And maybe it’s not about being fat anyway. It’s about control and self discipline. For me being fat is a sign of the lack of both. And _this_ is inacceptable for me – or sums up the value of someone. Things are getting weird sometimes in my own little world. And it probably got even worse after the last IP. But at least now, turning 30 in a few weeks, I am able to put my feelings and thoughts in words.

  133. Amanda says:

    Mrs B.- I know you are upset with your daughter, but just stop to remember. She had the urge to purge, and she fought it. Maybe she just felt she had to do something, anything, to fight that urge. Congratulate her on not giving in, and being honest with you about it. That is a great step. You can still get tattoos together if you both want. Just because she has one, doesn’t mean she can’t get another. My dad was on buspar for a few months for anxiety. I don’t think he had any side affects from it, but he is addicted to prescription medication, so he is always coming up with different reasons for doctors to give him more meds.

    Leni- I think being able to admit your feelings about overweight people is a great first step. It obviously bothers you that you think this way, now you can work towards changing your views. If you are in therapy, try talking to your therapist about it.

  134. Leni says:

    Amanda – I am not and I think I’ll never be again. I tried (or better “was made to try”) several times in the last decade and no one could ever convince me of the benefits such a therapy could bring me. I know about the consequences of “way of life” and even if it makes me depressed, if I break down and cry, if I hate myself a lot from time to time – it’s the path I took and I have and actually also want to deal with. It’s not unbearable; not more than going into the other direction would be.

  135. Della. says:

    Being a part of the LJ Pro-ana community, i see alot of girls/guys come and go very quickly. The reason for this is that a tremendous amount of the people who google us and fill out the application and end up becoming a member, unfortunatly ‘like’ the idea of Anorexia, or an ED. They see it as a quick fix, a diet, a lifestyle choice, something to be thought of lightly. Fornately, these people are stronger than they thought, and become shocked and disturbed,and soon realise the dangers/hell/shit that an ED is through reading genuine posts and decide to leave.
    I dont promote my ED to anyone, and never would, (i am Bulimic, diagnosed at 13, now 21) i dont ness see pro-ana as support community to ED sufferers sometimes, but as one for those who dont actually belong there, and are looking for something they think will just make them thin, to help them to see that its not glam, not a choice to make one morning, and NOT a decent and healthy way to live. If the community i belong to can do that for just one person a week, thats one saved.
    Loving your work MamaV, bet an LJ user never said THAT before, aha.
    Keep it up. Lots of love xx

  136. Josie says:

    Della – i’m the ex-mod of the community. I have such mixed feelings over it. On the one hand anything “pro” about it infuriates me and the normalisation of something harmful is bad, but on the other the social support and the things you speak of are in some ways invaluable.
    There were so many tough times that the community helped me through, and i don’t think i’d ever have had the insight into my ED i have now without so many others to share it with. And during my recovery i had more support from the community than from any other source – i actually owe the community that.

  137. Amanda says:

    Leni-I understand your feelings about therapy. No one is going to benefit from being forced into any kind of treatment. You have to want it for yourself. If not therapy, what about a support group? Maybe OA could be helpful. I’ve never been to a meeting, but I imagine there are overweight people at the meetings. Maybe being around them and hearing them talk about their feelings and struggles with food would help you see that they are not much different than those with anorexia and bulimia.

  138. mamaV says:

    Mrs B: Mom to mom…I need to ask you to ponder something.

    A tattoo. A piercing. Symbols of independence. Good sign in my view.

    Try not to squash this spirit! I see absoulutely nothing wrong with her actions. It tells me she is coming back to life- no?

    On the tattoo together promise, let it go. Seriously praise her for branching out on her own.

    Xanax? All for drugs. They get a bad rap, and can instead be life saving. I speak from experience. Lifesaving and life changing.

    Does anything I’ve said make you think in a differently about this situation?

    Love,
    MamaV

  139. Mrs. B. says:

    MamaV
    No offense.

    Google this; eating disorders, tattoos, cutting, piercings….all together.
    You will find lots of studies about the statistical correlation of these and other high risk behaviors. You may be a bit naive because your kids are young.

    Xanax. Google that too. Bad drug. She’s already on Prozac. Not nearly as bad. Xanax is a bad drug. My husband is a doctor, Mama. I have pretty good information available to me. Fortunately, that is not what her doctor prescribed because she has addictions tendancies.
    MamaV. You are awesome, but not terribly aware of the current culture.

  140. Josie says:

    Mrs B – i’m glad you’re taking that view of MVs advice. My attitudes to MV aside, i do believe it’s bad advice.
    I had another thing which i thought of with you and your daughter – how did you react to your daughter when you found out? Was it calmly, or with anger? Communication in a family is vitally important. Does your daughter know how concerned you are and how hurt you are that she went ahead without you? If she knows you’re hurt then if any of the impulsivity is a type of rebelling she may consciously try and tone it down.
    xx

  141. Mrs. B. says:

    Josie,
    We sat down and talked cross-legged on her bed. Quietly and calmly. We had discussed the labret previously. I showed her that orthodontists strongly advise against them because they can severely damage teeth and gums. I also gave her the perspective, as a human resources manager that people look suspiciously at multiple facial piercings. Fair or not, facial piercings limit job choices. They can also come out if you feel they limit you. She said she would start her job search and if it seemed to be causing her a problem, she would remove it. She really seemed pretty open to keeping an open mind and I am too – other than the problems it can cause in her mouth! If it starts to irritate anything, I think it needs to come out.

    The tattoo is really large. It is a meaningful “statement” to her. “Talitha cumi” is what it says. Jesus’ words to the dead little girl when he performed the miracle of bringing her back to life. “Little girl, rise” in the original aramaic language. Frankly, I think that it is a beautiful sentiment and that if it helps her fight her illness, then I am happy about that. But I told her that I had been looking forward to our pact and that I was disappointed that it had not been as meaningful to her as it obviously had been to me. I think she understood why I was hurt. But she knows that although I am concerned because the tattoo is HUGE (like 8 inches long and two inches tall) and black – and it is on her forearm – not too discreet, it IS a beautiful sentiment. How could I NOT think so.

    Anyway, now I have another problem. We have set forth some minimal rules…she has to keep her room in a state our housekeeper can work with, which includes her bathroom. She cannot purge in the tub because if creates a plumbing nightmare. Her car, which I pay for and insure must be kept up in maintenance and clean. She must be home by midnight unless she is staying with a friend. The friends she can stay with are restricted to a core group, because she has some problems with binge drinking and recreational drug use…..which started with the boyfriend who raped her. She has to go to church on Sundays….and she loves her church. For her, that’s a good thing. She is expected to attend her IOP sessions – we just paid $6,000 cash for them. She needs to go.

    That’s about it. For that, I pay for her car, insurance and plates, give her her room and board, pay her bills and provide an allowance.

    I think it’s fair. Unfortunately, she isn’t living up to her side of the deal. She has been told that we love her, but this IS the deal. If she cannot live by the house rules, she will need to find other living arrangements.

    She is kind of a kid who has to learn by experience….LIKES to experience – not always healthy stuff. But she has to create her own life. She says that someday she will write a book and make millions and pay her father back for all she has cost him. It may be her path. I pray it does not kill her.

    She will always have a home if she can live in a home cohesively.

  142. vive42 says:

    when you say she can’t/won’t abide by her side of the deal, can you give a sense of the scope? because, see, from the other side i would say if she can’t keep her room clean or as clean as you’d like or staying out a half hour later once in a while, versus if she’s been going out drinking with bad friends and not coming back for days on end?

  143. Mrs. B. says:

    Vanessa,
    The last time she told me she was staying with a friend, she woke up in a hotel after passing out drunk. She is not allowed to stay out all night anymore unless I KNOW who she is with and where she is. This issue is not so much ED. She is recovering from a 19 year old heartbreak. I’ve been there. I get that.

    She’s actually doing OK on the room thing. Our housekeeper comes once a week and we all straighten before she comes. We’re actually ok there.

  144. shelly says:

    Mrs. B-

    I dont think you are asking too much of her. I like that you take the stand that if she cant live by the rules she needs to find other living arrangements. In rehab I had to keep my room/bathroom tidy. I couldn t be late to anything and I had a lot of other small rules to follow. I thought they were pointless and I thought the staff were just looking for ways to come down on me. They explained it like thos: If I couldnt even keep my room and bathroom clean I couldnt maintain recovery. As stupid as it seems, it makes sense. It is all about responsibility which a lot (not all) addicts lack. I noticed that when I started to break the little rules the more I was slowly slipping back into a relapse.
    Maybe it is just teenage rebellion, maybe it is not…I dont know.
    Also, suggesting AA for her addiction might be a good idea. They are lots of really great people there. Working through the steps is amazing and getting a sponsor might keep her accountable. Offer to go with her and try out a few different meetings to see if she likes it. It is a very spiritual program.
    I am glad you said that about the Xanax. be afraid…be very afraid. Taking xanax, klonopin, valium, and ativan is the main reason i ended up in rehab. I am glad you have a doc in the family. Even when I was on this class of medication I was still impulsive. they completely changed who I was. I became tolerant and addicted very quickly.
    I think you are handling these circumstances very well. I am glad you two are communicating and that is the key.

    shelly

  145. Mrs. B. says:

    Shelly, Thanks.

    I forgot to mention that when she is in a slide, she stops answering her phone. In therapy we set some guidelines. She has 2 hours to get back to me with a call, not a text message. She knows that when she does not, I start to panic.

    She hasn’t called me back since midnight last night. I just texted her and told her that if she will not answer her phone calls, as we agreed, I will be taking her off my cell plan.

    Sigh.

    I hate this. I just want to be with her and love her and see her take some responsibility.

  146. Amanda says:

    Mrs. B- I think you are doing exactly what you need to do. Your daughter needs to learn to be responsible and follow rules. Though your rules may seem pointless to her, I think they will teach her a great lesson. We all have to follow rules. When we go to work, we have to follow the rules, or we won’t have a job. When we rent an apartment, we have to follow the landlords rules or we won’t have a place to live. You are trying to teach her a skill that she will need for the rest of her life, and she needs to learn that if she doesn’t follow the rules, there will be consequences. I know it is hard being tough on her, but I think you are doing exactly what she needs right now.

    I agree with Shelly on the meds part. Be afraid, be very afraid. My dad was an alcoholic when I was young. He has an addictive personality, and became addicted to pain meds after an accident. Doctors prescribed him klonopin to get off the pain meds, and he quickly became addicted to that. I don’t know anything about xanax, but I would be very careful with any type of meds considering your daughters history.

  147. Mrs. B. says:

    Amanda,
    Thank you for the support. My heart is breaking at the moment.

    Love to all.
    Mrs. B.

  148. Amanda says:

    Mrs B.- I know your heart is breaking, but please know that you are very loved and needed here.

  149. Josie says:

    Mrs B – I think you are doing the right thing considering the circumstances. Without knowing all that you and your family have been through it looks quite strict, especially for a 19-year-old, but maybe it’s what she needs to shock her.

  150. Mrs. B. says:

    Josie,
    I so wish that I could treat her like a normal college-aged 19 year old. I hate this for all of us. Thanks everyone for listening. I did find out that she’s ok….and where she said she was last night…which is somewhere safe and good. I called her old boyfriend who knows the girl she spent the night with. He says she is there and fine. I so love that guy. Because he takes very good care of her. For my Christian friends out there, please say a prayer for her today. I’m saying one for all of you.

    Love,
    Mrs. B.

  151. Josie says:

    Mrs B –
    I’m thinking of you.
    I wish we could all understand better what goes on inside eachothers minds, and things would be so much easier. I’m trying to put myself in your daughters shoes and imagine what’s going through her mind, but i find it difficult because i don’t think i’d consciously do things which i’d know would hurt others by making them worry. I can only understand in terms of doing things where i felt I had no choice in it, where i was in utter desperation, like my suicide attempts, so maybe that’s how your daughter feels – that she HAS to do these things. How much mental health problems are choices and how much of it is ourselves are going to be questions that bug us forever i think.

  152. kim says:

    mrs. b, i am envious of how much you love your daughter. she is very lucky. as long as im living you will both always be in my prayers. xxxkim i really do love ya

  153. Mrs. B. says:

    Everyone,
    I have talked to my daughter. Last night was good for her, I think (crappy for me, good for her). She always has a hard time thinking about how we might feel. I think that is part age, part impulsivity, part ED. She says she wants to stay in town for college. She feels like she has good solid Christian friends here who love her. When one of her friends from treatment lost contact with her when her cell died last weekend, she expressed how worried she had been. It was one of those Ah ha moments for her. She was like, “So THAT is how you feel!” How soon we forget.

    She said that she is going to bring these friends home for dinner soon so that I can know them and add them to the list of places where I can know she can be safe overnight list. That’s great with me.

    I am praying that continued IOP and continued communication can get us to a place where I can feel like she can live independently. One of her friends plans to attend art school at the local campus downtown and my daughter thinks she might like to go there too (not for art, probably for biology or psychology). It is a fabulous urban area where the two of them could live a pretty great young adult life if my daughter would stay healthy enough to LIVE it!!! We have an amazing downtown.

    Love you all.
    Mrs. B

  154. Mrs. B. says:

    Kim,
    Thank you, and I love you too. Take good care of you, please.

  155. Josie says:

    Mrs B – i’m so glad that you’re communicating so well with your daughter. I think one thing she needs is time, it’s still early days.
    Thinking about you and your daughter made me think about me and my dad. Our relationship isn’t good really. Thinking about it this afternoon i think it’s a much bigger problem than i thought before. A lot of myself is crying out for help, and ultimately my dad is the one to help me, but i’ve been pushing him away for so many years that i don’t know how salvagable our relationship even is.

  156. Mrs. B. says:

    Josie,
    Would you be open to doing some therapy with him? I cannot imagine that your father does not love you enormously and that he would do anything to help you – if he thought you were genuinely ready to help improve the relationship. I will tell you that it is heartbreaking to love someone with mental health issues. You want so much just to help them see the world differently – see the light. And it does not work that way. No matter what, it would probably be really well received by him if you just let him know that you would like to be closer to him.

    I remember soon after my husband and I were married, he called his mom, after a sermon on reconciliation. They had struggled in their relationship for years. He told her that he did not remember what had caused the original damage in their relationship, but that he wanted her to know that he loved her and would like to have a better relationship….and it has been better….just started by that simple message of desire for reconciliation.

  157. mamavision says:

    Hi Mrs. B: No offense. But I suggest you look up.

    1 A blanket statement that Xanax is a “bad drug” is silly. The fact that your husband is a doctor is irrelevant. The truth is every drug effects every brain differently. I believe you are being close minded on this, and I am telling you so you don’t miss any opportunity to assist your daughter in her recovery. You may 100% correct that Xanax is a bad choice for her…but maybe another suggested drug will be good and you need to be open to suggestion. (Plus I don’t want the girls on this blog to close off their minds to the use of these type of drugs to assist with recovery).

    2 I am far from ignorant when it comes to cutting and eating disorders. If you only knew the volume of email I receive behind the scenes. I am more plugged into the young culture than I ever wanted to be to be honest with you.

    Piercing and tattooing with eating disorders – I think the “harmful” nature is debateable.

    I googled as you requested and here is the first result and most relevant to the eating disorder topic at hand.

    Keywords
    tattooing • piercing • self-injury • self-harm • eating disorders

    Abstract
    Eating disordered patients seem to have a love-hate relationship with their bodies. Why do some decorate their bodies by means of tattooing and piercing, while others deliberately injure themselves and make parts of their body unattractive? We have explored this question in 101 eating-disordered patients by means of self-reporting questionnaires about the presence and characteristics of tattooing, piercing and self-injuring as well as the underlying motives. Furthermore, we studied the co-occurrence of impulsive behaviours as well as personality traits. In our patient sample, 11.9 per cent had one or more tattoos, 25.7 per cent a piercing and 64.9 per cent showed some form of self-injurious behaviour (SIB). Tattooing and piercing are clearly driven by esthetical reasons, whereas SIB can have various explanations. All three behaviours were significantly more often linked to substance (ab)use. With respect to personality traits, piercing was positively linked to extraversion (positive affectivity) and openness, and negatively to conscientiousness. SIB, on the contrary, was positively linked to neuroticism (negative affectivity) and conscientiousness, and negatively to extraversion and openness. Tattooing did not show significant correlations with particular personality traits (probably due to the small number of tattooed patients). In summary, piercing and tattooing seem to reflect more self-care, and might protect some patients against more self-harm. Copyright © 2005 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd and Eating Disorders Association.

    If you have information to the contrary, please share it because I am interested in this topic.

    No judgements here, just gently asking you to elaborate.

    Pick and choose your battles Mrs. B
    -mamaV

  158. Josie says:

    Sticking up for Mrs B in the Xanax issue – xanax is highly addictive, a shortterm solution, AND there’s a reason it’s not used in so many countries. Psychiatric drugs for most people are nothing more than a prop to get them through the worst of something, but ultimately the problem is not solvable by drugs. There are sometimes people who respond brilliantly to psychiatric drugs – like the drug is a wonder-drug for them, implying their problem is a chemical imbalance – but i don’t think in most cases that’s how it is – especially not in the case of a girl like Mrs Bs daughter.

    Thanks Mrs B. I don’t know what to do. It comes from both sides – both him not wanting to be involved, and me not neccessarily wanting him to be involved. It’s so complicated.

  159. Mrs. B. says:

    MamaV.
    Fortunately, the professionals on our support team agree with me and Josie. My daughter has some very strong tendencies that have led them to choose different alternatives than the benzos.

    Well, there you go. You answered your own question. Since my daughter is pierced, tattooed, has an ED AND cuts and self injures, in her, obviously, there is a rather broad spectrum for self-injury….brought on by PTSD and rape. Mama V. My daughter and I do not have a battle about the piercing or the tattoo. Go back and reread. We’re OK with it. The hiring managers who interview her, however, may not be.

  160. Amanda says:

    Well said Mrs. B.

    I am glad your daughter is safe and communicating with you.

    Thinking of you.

    Amanda

  161. shelly says:

    Mrs. B-
    i just wrote a lot but lost it…

    Whatever you do DO NOT let your daughter go on benzos. Seriously, it will ruin her life and only numb her out and put her recovery in jeopardy. i agree with you and josie on this matter. I was in rehab because of benzos. A lot of my agoraphobia is because of protracted benzo withdrawal which can last anywhere from 6-18 months and sometimes years. They only serve as a band aid for a little while because tolerance after as little as two weeks leads to increasing the dose. There is also tolerance withdrawal which means while you are taking benzos you develop tolerance and if you chose to not increase the dose you are in a steady state of withdrawal. I am not saying all psych meds are bad, but I know you do research. I know a lot about the effects benzos can have because I fortunately survived it disastrious effects. I think behavioral therapies would be the first route. Meds may help but they are going to change behavior patterns and that is what it sounds like with your daughter. You want to encourage her to learn to channel all this energy she has in a positive way instead of numbing her out with meds.

    Please whatever you do…do not let her take any benzos. I dont want someone else going through the same thing I had to go through. I almost died. i had a seizure during withdrawal. Scary stuff…

    shelly

    I am going to post a website which is based on very knowledgable research by Dr. Heather Ashton in london. You an dmamv should check out the site…
    Xanax is a very very very bad drug…sorry mamav…but it is and most doctors are finally realizing it.

  162. shelly says:

    Here is the site.

    w w w . benzo. org.uk/

    I dont knwo why my computer will not let me post a website

  163. Amanda says:

    I totally agree with Shelly on this one. I have never been on benzos, but I have seen what they have done to my dad for the last two years. Doctors won’t listen to us when we tell them he is an addict and needs off this stuff. They just keep giving him more to help him cope with the withdrawal symptoms.

    I am not completely against psychiatric meds, but I do think doctors need to be more careful. People with EDs tend to have addictive personalites, and some of these drugs only make things worse. I was on anti-depressants for a long time, and I finally stopped taking them not long ago. I know that they help a lot of people, but I was tired of going through life numb to everything. I may not be happy, but at least I feel now.

  164. Josie says:

    On the xanax thing – by the looks of it it was the UK that discovered how harmful benzos are, and that’s why it’s not used over here. I expect the USA hasn’t kindof caught up on it yet, but may have benzos phased out like they have here.

  165. Mrs. B. says:

    Josie,
    You’re right. The UK was way ahead on that one. Don’t worry, Shelly, even my daughter said she thought that she was ill-suited to benzos.

  166. x says:

    I hate you all so much. You people just go in circles and it’s totally pointless.

  167. Nats says:

    X,

    Keep walking!!

  168. Mrs. B. says:

    X,
    I’d like to know more about you. You are obviously hurting. I promise not to spout gospel at you. I’m genuinely curious.

  169. Aisling says:

    Mrs. B

    you seem a very good caring person and i think your daughter is very lucky to have a parent that cares so much. I dont think i’ve met a parent who will try and understand what their children are going through by talking to others in the similar situations as her

    take care
    and both of you will be in my prayers

    x x x

  170. Mike says:

    :)

    I still love you guys and have you in my prayers.
    Mrs B, and everyone here, please have a meaningful Easter Sunday.

    Luv,
    mike

  171. Ashamed says:

    A lot of people have been saying “I hope this lady doesn’t see these comments”. Why not?

    I am the fat lady in the video. I put that video up on you tube not expecting nice people. I know what people say when they find out I have EDNOS.

    People seem to think that I proclaimed myself as anorexic at one point in my life. If those who said they watched my other videos would fully watch them, I am pretty sure that I said that at my lowest weight I was where I should have been. But, having friends seeing me go from obese to a normal weight in a time frame that obviously wasn’t healthy, they were concerned. My family was concerned, and my Doctor was concerned. I was referred to an eating disorder counselor and at first I didn’t go. I knew I would get fat, that the “fat” gene handed down from my parents wouldn’t just decide to go away. I was scared to look the way I do now.

    The things that have been said regarding me being a “self proclaimed” anorexic is absolutely false. I was diagnosed EDNOS my sophomore year of high school which was 10 years ago now. I was diagnosed with a disorder that means that I don’t fit the weight profile for an eating disorder but there is still a chance and I fit parts of the descriptions. I did restrict my calories, but, my disorder tendencies were more bulemic than anorexic.

    As far as it being a phase, a phase is something that you go through once and it goes away. It never goes away. My husband saw that first hand, and thats why I needed to work my ass off to get where I am, fat. I had someone in my life who would rather me look the way that I do right now than walk in from work and hear me puking in the bathroom and screw up my body worse than it has been.

    People have asked how long I looked at the pro eating disorder sites. To answer that, some of my best friends that I still have today I became friends with on those sites. Seeing the pictures of emaciated women on those sites didn’t scare me. Why? Because my whole life up until I found those sites, I was the fat girl that people made fun of, spit at, beat up, tripped in gym class and laughed at. In my mind, at the point that I chose, yes, it was a choice for me to go on those sites to begin with, was that I would rather die pretty than live the rest of my life being a nobody fatso that is a punching bag for everyone. If I died, at that point I didn’t want to live anyway, so to me, what was there to lose? I didn’t care. I went on one of those sites and put up a post saying something like I desperately want to be thin, I need to know how to do it, and I need support. I had messages from people asking me if I was serious, and that it would take a lot of work but if I wanted to be beautiful and thin, they could help and support me. The friends I have that I met on that site gave me the tools I needed to learn about my 45 minute time limit if I end up eating to throw it up. They gave me the list of foods to eat that were easier to throw up. I was taught many things on that site.

    It has been 10 years since I was diagnosed and the thing that really got me on here is that everyone is looking at my unstable mental state at the time I made those other videos. My husband was gone, and I missed him terribly. Yes, I talked about doing the same things over again because I felt like I had lost control of my life and through my life, throwing up the food I ate, not eating enough, that was control. I couldn’t control what people said about me, I couldn’t control what other people did, I couldn’t control the close friends that I had dying, so I turned to controlling myself. Which, is ironic. I used food as a control and in the process, I lost control. For that, I am ashamed.

    I mentioned I have BDD which is Body Dysmorphic Disorder. Which means, I have a distorted sense of what I see in the mirror, and unhealthy distortion that led to what happened to me. My counselors took care of treating that first, then we focused on the EDNOS.

    As far as being lazy, or the stereotype of fat=overeating, I have never been an over eater. I played basketball, tennis, I used to dance. Until I blew out my knee at a dance audition, I liked running, going to the gym. You all are seeing the picture of me now, and making a judgment on what I have looked like my whole life. None of you have asked if I am huge just because I recovered, or if there other contributions.

    For the person who said that I was spoon feeding my friend Patty who had cancer, no, I wasn’t. She chose not to get help, and because of that, when she needed the strength, the body weight to fight the cancer, she had nothing. If it matters, she died.

    I am ashamed for what I look like. I am ashamed that I for a moment thought about not hurting my husband anymore and got fat. There is not one moment that goes by during the day that I don’t consider going back to the way I used to be. Everytime I eat, especially in front of people, I still count the calories. My friend Tara who I met off of one of those sites has recovered, she suffers from depression worse than I do. And no, she doesn’t look fat and obese like me. You can recover without becoming a lard ass. I wasn’t that lucky.

    Despite what you may think, it took me a lot of courage to talk about things on camera. The reason I don’t usually put myself out there is because I am ashamed that I look the way I do. I work out every day, and I still look the way I do. I don’t eat junk because I can’t. I have borderline diabetes as a result of what I did to myself. I am borderlining diabetes and hypoglycemia. So, I can’t over eat, and now I can’t restrict without my blood sugar bottoming out. I did it to myself.

    As far as looking at my mental state under a microscope, I was going through a bad time. Doesn’t everyone? The point I am going to make is unless I was psychic with the same thing happening at the same point that I clicked onto those pro eating disorder, I am not sure how my mental instability at that moment had anything to do with how I felt and what I went through when I made the CHOICE to go onto those sites as a freshman in high school. The only mental instability I had at the time was feeling like being thin was my only way out of the hell I was feeling and I had found a place that accepted me and wanted to help rather than to make me feel even more alone than I already felt. They made me feel not alone. They gave me a space to let out my self hate and tools to make myself feel good again. Anywhere else, anyone else, they would have taken my insecurities and used them to make me feel worse. I understand why mama v is doing what she is doing. I am pregnant, and will be a mom. I thought about this a couple days ago when my husband asked me if I was done hurting myself. He said “I don’t want you teaching our daughter to hate themselves and not accept themselves and teach them to fix it by starving yourself or puking up their insecurities”. I think it is different to look at from an outside perspective, no matter where you are with your disorder. Would you let your daughter or son do what you did? How would you react if you did a history on their computer and saw 20 different pro eating disorder sites and then see your daughter not eat anything at dinner?

    Those of you who say that looking at me makes you not want to recover, I know. And, I am sorry. I am hard to look at. It should be harder to look at me knowing that I am a 25 year old woman who hates herself, who can’t look in a mirror anymore without crying, who has no self esteem left, and who still listens to people who call her fat and feels ashamed that she wanted to get better. It should be harder to look at a woman whose husband is worried about her having children because she might teach her kids to not like themselves. It should be hard to look at a woman who is pregnant and doesn’t eat what she is supposed to.

    I am ashamed that I got better, I am ashamed that people look at me and are scared of getting better and are disgusted at what they see. I am ashamed that I have literally lost control of the imaginary control that made me feel so good.

    I am sorry I am so hard to look at, I apologize that I allowed myself to be disgusting to everyone. I just hope that I can learn to accept myself like you all have.

    This is an open forum, everyone can say what they want. People who call me fat and ugly, disgusting, a disgrace to recovered eating disorders, your right. No fault is going to you.

  172. Lisa says:

    I have to jump in.
    I have a DIAGNOSED eating disorder.
    I am not some wannarexic who is faking.
    I do not clain to have anorexia.
    I have a combination of any eating problem you could ever imagine.
    I weigh over 250 lbs.
    I hardly ever eat above 200 cals or less a day.
    But I have a brain tumor.
    I have that to thank for being fat.
    So saying that fat people lack willpower is hurtful.

    To each his own.

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