Size 8 is the new Size 14!
11 Oct
Tyra Banks is off her rocker. After being stalked and humilated by the paparazzi for her weight, she turns around and redefines “plus size” as a skinny mini size 8.
We are all now “plus-sized” thanks to America’s Next Top Model show and the model of the moment Sarah Hartshorne!
Sarah leads the plus sized parade prancing in at:
Height: 5′10
Weight: 150 pounds
Size : 8
Hang on, that’s me, that’s my size. I’m confused.
As most of you know, when I was modeling the size requirement was size 8. I am a size 8 now, but I am 30 pounds heavier. Hmm…..
Have I been duped?
Did the sizes change?
Did the scale change?
Did I fry too many brain cells starvation dieting?
(Let’s not even go into the image in the mirror…oh the horror of aging!)
Sarah is no plus size and this is a load of crap. Why the hell did she accept the title “plus size” when she knows she doesn’t fit the bill? I guess she was not willing to miss her 15 minutes of fame.
Girls, this is bullshit. Don’t buy into it.
If you do, you’ll be sunk like the rest of the pro anorexia suckers that paste on their smile as they die inside from starvation and self hatred. They will quickly reel you into their misery filled existence because they need company, reassurance, and purpose to keep their hope alive. Their heads filled with nothing but desire to become someone else.
(Ugly, Ugly, and Ugly)
It’s a dead end. Pro ana’s don’t care about you- they care about themselves. This is simply about one thing, and one thing only only - self esteem. Starving yourself will not grow it. Let’s be real already.
Bones are not attractive.
Bones are not sexy.
Bones are not cool.
Vanity. Damn ugly.
-mamaV
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Thanks to Tipster Laura for this story.
Yes Vanessa, I had to drag Pro Ana’s into this story.
*All photos complements of the World Wide PUBLIC Web!
Well-said, Mama. Unfortunately, I’m an ANTM addict, but I seriously considered stopping tuning in when Tyra made that comment. Um… hello?? I’m 5′7 and 150 pounds, and I wear a size 8. But, I’m also a ballet dancer, so most of that is muscle tone – as it looks to be for this young woman. I am CERTIANLY nowhere near even “overweight”, and this girl is even a tad bit leaner than me!
According to many, sizes HAVE changed in the last few years, so that what’s now a 12 is what used to be a 16 for example. That’s why there never used to be size 0s, Americans are far from getting smaller!!!!! The sizes are changing to keep up with American women getting bigger.
On TV a few months ago when i was deep in my ED a “plus-sized” model came in at 140lbs and 5′11, so even more extreme. This is nothing new.
Here I sit in my size 12 trousers, size 8 top (my ED has completely misshapen my body so it’s wwaayy out of proportion). Tonight i will sleep with a pillow between my knees to stop them bruising. So at 146lbs, with 4lbs left to gain of recovery weight (bringing my weight up to the ‘minimum’ weight of a BMI of 20), what am i meant to think?
Not going to start criticising your use of ‘pro-ana’s in this story, i’m sure Vanessa will do it adequately.
But what i don’t understand is, why the sudden portrayal of them being evil twisted selfish monsters trying to drag others into believing the ‘Ana Dream’? They’re just people – girls, women, boys and men – just like me, you, other readers of this blog. Hell – how many readers here came from pro-ana sites in the first place? They’re not out to seduce anyone else, just deal with their own personal demons – low self-esteem, dieting spirals, eating disorders.
I am 5′ 10″ and 150 pounds.. but I’m a size 6… is that just because I was a dancer so most if it is muscle?
I don’t even think most of it is muscle..
I don’t even know. I just want people to know that me? I am NOT plus sized!!!!!!
Jerks.
well lookee here. maybe this post was meant as a peace offering, since i also recently read that mamaV looks forward to reading my comments. the gift of saying ignorant, outrageous and indefensible things about proana was awfully thoughtful, thank you.
first of all i would like to say that i entirely agree with all the stuff in this post before you started bringing proana into things. calling a size 8 a plus size is ridiculous but calling a 5′10″ woman who is a size 8 plus size is offensive even to me. last time i checked a tall woman wearing a size 8 was called “thin” and a healthy weight woman of 5′10″ would be wearing a 12 or 14. also, you seemed to allude to vanity sizing/size inflation. it is something that annoys the heck out of me, especially since i’m 5′2″ so the smaller sizes were really intended to fit people like me! getting too small for the clothing in your favorite stores is honestly no fun and petites are often aimed at older people and just aren’t as fashionable.
now, on to the fun part. mamaV do you really believe what you wrote about proana here? josie knows better, maybe you should listen to her if you won’t listen to me. proanas are like gays- there’s no toaster for converting new members. we don’t advertise (that i’m aware of) and people find proana through their actions, not by seeing proana tv commercials or popup ads. the only people who deliberately publicize proana are its detractors.
this characterization of “proanas” as monsters out to seduce 14 year old kids into their sick mentality is just inflamatory uninformed mamaV rhetoric. proanas are mostly sad insecure women who wouldn’t want to hurt anyone. most fail to understand that they may be doing so. in order to improve things, opening a dialog that helps proana change from within would be helpful. characterizing everyone in proana as monsters will only make people angry and make them refuse to listen and become more set in their ways.
oh, what the hell. let’s round this comment out with a link to my blog, an old post i did about proana that approaches it in a sane, rational manner. unlike mamaVISION does:
http://blameful.blogspot.com/2007/09/old-school-proana.html
mamav-
i watch ANTM and i love sarah. but i too thought she didnt look “plus size”.
And Tyra thought so too.
in the first episode of this cycle she made several comments about how “she wasnt “plus enough” to be a plus model” that she was “on the thin” side.
but instead of saying “lose weight” to be a high fashion model…
or instead of saying “gain weight” to be a true plus size.
they are keeping her at her normal weight.
then they said “if it’s not plus what is she?” and Ms. Jay said “real size modeling” and Tyra said-”i like that, i’m a real size model too!”
…..so i guess i dont really see her as saying size 8 is plus.
and ontop of that in the first epidsode….
Last night’s episode during the deliberation- when they looked at Sarah’s picture, they said they loved her, but it makes them Upset that she’s LOST weight. because its straying away from the idea that she was going to be herself-this “real sized” model.
so…
while i practically am always in favor of your posts and the beliefs behind them…
this is one i dont completely agree with.
especially after i’ve watched all of the episodes so far. and i really do believe that Tyra is on our side of this battle..
Hi Josie and Vanessa: Your comments and other comments thus far are solid examples of why I coorelate this story with the pro ana movement.
Josie says “What am I to think as a size 12 trousers, size 8 top”
Michelle says “I am not plus sized!”
Vanessa says “Calling a 5′10 woman in a size 8 plus size is offensive”
I say “Call me plus size, I don’t give a rip.”
It’s a label, its a game frankly. As Josie said, the sizes are just a joke, suddenly 16 is really a 12, size zero was invented somewhere along the line.
When I write a story such as this, I already know what the readers of this blog are going to think – I am FAT.
So I think its crucial to combat this line of thinking immediately, and stop these thoughts in their tracks as if to say “don’t even go there, let’s just stay right here in the middle and think about this.”
I sincerely believe addressing pro ana thinking and my beliefs on the topic over and over again is crucial. I am trying to help those here not hurt. The point is to make it uncool, to make it ugly, and to drill it in over and over until you all start to believe it.
I believe it to my core. I see it for what it is – sick and distorted.
Another key thing I wanted to share with you all is I receive many messages from pro anas that you are not privy to, they are sent privately and many are not so nice. You can get a taste for the attitude and arrogance I am refering to in the post called “Pro Ana privacy” or Pro Ana, time for a name change.” It comes with the territory and I am fine with it, my point to you guys is many of these girls are far from sweethearts.
These girls continue to barrade my efforts, tell me what a pathetic loser I am, defend their actions and make sly remarks to try to shut me down. I don’t see the sorrowfilled nice side of them, I see the tough, in control, bitchy side. Sure I know its all a front – that’s my point.
My priority is the girls who come here. All of you, and the new ones that come daily. I believe many will stop and think when they read what I have to say, and I believe I am up against some serious pro ana influencers who frankly, are guiding newbies down the wrong path. If you think this is a bunch of crap, I would say you should read my private email, and trust me – they are influencers. So if I hurt them by my words, I don’t care, because, maybe, just maybe I will knock them off their high horse and they will reach out for help.
I sure as heck know I have scared a lot of them into not posting their pictures publically, and I think that is a good thing.
I think this technique was invented a long time ago- its called tough love and I think with this group its the way to go.
Does this make sense?
mamaV
No way she is Plus Sized model.
She accepted the plus size label cos sadly she was too big to be a catwalk model. Which is sad.
At size 8 if she is a plus size model I must be a an plus plus size model at size 12/14. Things like this make my head hurt.
I think the comments from me, Michelle and Vanessa are not “I am fat”, but more “isn’t our society screwed up?”.
We’re very aware of how our society is making us feel not thin enough. For me at least, i’m fighting with it and telling myself the truth. I didn’t think “I am fat” when i saw this post. That might just be me though.
Vanessa has a point – girls go to pro-ana sites themselves, they’re not drawn to it by advertising (unless we count the negative attention such sites get as advertising…!).
I don’t see the girls here are different to other pro-ana-users (i’m gonna use that term – those who visit the sites don’t neccessarily go down the whole it’s-a-lifestyle route). We were all users once. I was an “influencial” pro-ana-user hahaha
There are some users who are ana-lifestyle-advocates, there are some who are vulnerable and impressionable, there are some who are very sick, some who aren’t sick, some who are manipulative bitches, some who are thin, some who are fat, some who want to recover, some who never want to recover. The variety of pro-ana-users is massive, and i don’t feel they can be all grouped under an umbrella.
There are bitchy, selfish manipulative pro-anas, but readers here aren’t the ones who need protecting from it, it’s the ‘newbies’, who won’t be here reading anyway.
Looking through the comments that come up on those posts you mentioned, i know a lot of the commenters there. They’re not bad horrible people, they’re just scared. Looking back in on old groups of friends, a lot don’t trust me because they know i’m in contact with you, and they’re petrified of their stuff being posted up here. They’re frightened about saying or doing anything online. But they’re not little girls scared of their parents finding out, they’re women who find the semi-anonymity of pro-ana liberating, as i did.
mamaV- please don’t dismiss things i say as eating disordered thinking without thinking yourself about what you know of me.
i think calling size 8 plus size is ridiculous because i spent my teen years shopping in the “women’s wear” area (this was before there were stores that sold cute, young plus size clothing), because i was medically obese. and there weren’t any 8s in the plus size section, believe me.
i think calling a thin woman plus sized is offensive because i spent my entire teenage years obese. it’s no picnic to be obese. thin people calling themselves fat has never stopped bothering me. which brings me to my last problem with what you said- you really think we’re all sitting here thinking “mamaV is so fat”?? well, i don’t know what others are thinking but i sure as hell am not thinking any such thing, because you aren’t. and you NEVER have been. you don’t know a damn thing about being fat in our society, but i’ll give you a hint- it’s not very much fun. people don’t treat you very well, and it’s hard to accept yourself when no one around you accepts you, because everyone is anti-fat.
as for proanas, suddenly the fact that a tiny minority are jerks is a defense for all your behavior? hmm- why don’t you defend racism because some black people are jerks? see how far that position takes you.
and last but not least, tough love? ok, so do you have studies showing that tough love is the way to help problematic online communities? i thought tough love was a strategy intended for INDIVIDUALS, not large groups. so, say if your family member was an alcoholic, you might try tough love by not giving them money when they went broke. but i’ve never heard of combatting alcoholism by starting a website that talks about how bad all alcoholics are, how they are evil and only interested in getting more people to be alcoholics so they’ll have more company.
so, as for tough love i’ll say sure, maybe sometimes a tough love approach will work with an individual with an eating disorder but i think you claiming tough love as a defense leaves a lot to be desired.
I think some of those pro ana pics you posted are pretty. Not “ugly, ugly, ugly”. That is YOUR opinion. It’s the same thing as posting pictures of ovreweight girls and calling those pics ugly. And bones ARE sexier than rolls of fat. Do you not understand that anorexia and bulimia are psychiatric disorders? While these girls are too focused on themselves, they’re not trying to get everyone to CONFORM to their way of life. Think about it: if so many more people became eating disordered and underwieght, the ana’s and the mia’s wouldn’t be so “special” anymore. While I like talking to other bulimics online, I wouldn’t want a large number of girls at my school to acquire any such disease and practice those behaviors. Those with the disorders see themselves as individuals with unique qualities, they have just chosen to hilight and create a new, unhealthy quality as their own.
If i were to say that one of the pictures you’ve posted was of me, would you take it down?
calling somebody plus-sized is in no way calling someone fat; however, it is saying that a 5′10 woman weighing in at 150 pounds isn’t the typical model size. models ARE skinny. i guess if you have such a big problem with it then don’t model. i think many people diss models because they wish they were skinny. not directed at anybody.. just in general. just my thought.
and mamav i love you, but who are you to say what is pretty or ugly?
i agree with all josie said about proana… i’m actually a moderator now on my forum so… i guess that makes me the evil person who is out to make as many new proanas as possible.
actually, i don’t know if i really am someone who’d be called “influencial” in proana- but if i am i have pretty mixed feelings about that. might have to write more about it sometime, maybe blog about it.
Vanessa – i was the mod of the biggest pro-ana site of them all (not boasting – just ironic haha…so only lasted for a few hours), so maybe i’m like that too hahaha
I wonder, if those girls in those pictures came and saw that they were labelled ugly, how they’d feel. Anorexics with low self-esteem and high body-perception and all.
I think they’re 3 beautiful girls. A
And stands by my above question actually, what if they were me, or one of us?
yey mamav – god it’s reply posts like that i luv from mamav – totally inspiring reinforcing why I fully support all mamav’s efforts woo!
You have got to be kidding me – size 8 is a “plus” size now? Sheesh. This is why I don’t watch television – my eyes would fall out of my head because I’d be rolling them so much.
I wish people wouldn’t care so much about clothing sizes.
The numbering on labels is so inconsistent from brand to brand that I don’t even look at the label. I hold the article of clothing up to myself and I know if it will fit or not. As a result I have no idea what size I am and I don’t care. I’m sure that if I were to look at the labels of all the clothing in my wardrobe, I’d have about 5 different sizes
you called those anorexic girls in those pictures ugly ugly ugly, well thats just plain nasty nsaty nasty, and down right bitchy, Er mama, for someone who is so experienced in eating disorders, having suffered one yourself…wouldnt you hav a little more insight into how shite this girls probably feel about temselves? And say they come across this site, and see you have gone and called them ugly….hmm i wonder will that help them snap out of their world or will they just spiral more into it…..im thinking the latter. Gee mama, your a real help to those out there who already feel gross and ugly and are already their own worst enemy when it comes to self criticising.
also i agree calling someone at 5″11 and 150 lbs size 8 (uk size 12) plus size is a friking joke!!!! But lets not diss tyra here or ANTM, cos tyra rocks! She is running a show that looks for models, and she is trying to help change how the fashion world is, by acceping girls who are in the fashion world considered too big…and on her chat she she is always doing taks about ED’s healthy dieting etc. And i you remember back to the first season of ANTM, you will see a woman got through to the finak four weighing 165lbs, and tyra defended her the whole way and got ino a screaming match with Janice dickinson (quite possibly the most unattractive model to ever model) about how janice was calling this woman fat and how thats what leading girls to do what they do today. So mama,no dissing tyra please. She rocks!
So, am I considered fat then?
Wow talk about a heated discussion. I am curious as to what you consider the “normal” weight for different heights. Most would consider a woman of 5′10″ 150lbs athletic and a healthy weight. Obviously you perceive this as too thin. Ok calling them plus size is obviously not the correct terminology. But calling women who are too thin ugly ugly is just plain cruel. I am surprised that someone who suffered from an ed would do that. Hmm maybe it is because you were paid to lose weight rather than those of us who do this upon ourselves because of self hatred, lack of affection and whatnot. Sorry I think you have a pretty messed up idea of what eds are. We aren’t all models here. You started off with good intentions but somewhere along the line you went terribly wrong. Hope all this helps in making you a profit when you sell your distorted book.
I HATE Tyra Banks. Oh my goodness. I really can’t stand her. She goes out of her way to point out how she outs “plus size” models on her show and how one of the models has autism and…ergh. I just hate her. Also, keep in mind that there is vanity sizing. Today’s size 8 is probably closer to 1985-ish’s size 12….and 1985-ish’s size 8 is probably closer to today’s size 4.
Wow. I’m so glad I stopped watching that show when I got out of treatment. So so happy. That’s about where I’m supposed to get with recovery weight, since I’m 5′10. I had no idea that now doctors are actively ENCOURAGING girls to be plus size, which may technically equal fat, but it’s usually implied. It’s a shame. On one had I want to be all yay for Sarah for giving modelling a shot anyway. On the other hand though, it’s a bit of a sell-out to accept the label plus size at her size. I guess my view is skewed since my own thought of being a model was pretty much just a phase, not a lifelong dream. I hope this doesn’t do too much damage to girls. I’ve already been questioning whether my doctors are out to get me by establishing such a ‘high’ weight for me and this definitely doesn’t help. But at least I know that height and weight looks beautiful, neither sickly thin nor by any means too big. I’ll be happy to look like that (I hope.)
Im completly agree with Vanessa ad Josie, also i dont understad why you labeled as UGLY the girls in the pics, MamaV you said “I am trying to help those here not hurt”, well i have to say that you calling UGLY to that girls definetly hurt me, because if i was one of them you just called me ugly…and i supose you think that’s good for my selfsteem,but is not.
and also you said “Pro ana’s don’t care about you- they care about themselves”, well yeah, this is what is about this dissease, about caring about yourself in a sick way.
Hey Mama V, are my emails getting to you? haven’t heard from ya since the last one.
Ok gang, et’s go through these questions one by one. You are all helping me a great deal by the way because what we are discussing here strikes at the core of who I am and what I say I stand for and I appreciate the opportunity to clarify.
To Josies comment above where she articulates well the massive mix of girls under the “pro ana” umbrella. This is without a doubt- accurate.
However, you all need to understand I am coming from a totally different perspective than you. Forget about my past modeling stuff for a minute, I am a 38 year old mother, who stumbled on this entire pro ana concept a year ago. I delve deep into all the forums, youtube videos, my space, you name it. I do not see you girls who comment here as the “pro anas” I speak of and for lack of a better word – rip on.
Maybe you were one of of “them” a while back, touting anorexia as a lifestyle- but now you are in a different place (I hope since that is the goal here).
Bottomline: anyone who touts anorexia as a lifestyle is wrong- dead wrong. I will be ruthless in my desire to stop you.
You have all been influenced by the media and fashion in one way or another. I have concluded this after a heck of a lot of thought, reading of posts, etc. You may not see this in yourself, but I believe, and its just my belief remember, not fact, I believe that at everyone’s core there is an aspect of vanity to eating disorders. Even if it is 1%, it is there, it is human, it is unfortunetly part of being a woman that we can’t hide from nor deny. I know this is controversial, but it as what I have come to believe.
I to have an aspect of this that I will always have, but does it rule my life? No, because my passions in life are so much greater than this vanity influence. This is not something we should be ashamed to admit, I am saying we should be ashamed when we let it rule our lives and we start taking ugly pictures of our self strutting our “stuff.” It’s ugly, its not cool, and its not funny.
The three images of the girls above tagged as “ugly” were chosen deliberately and with forethought. I am sorry, but you are not going to convince me that:
1 These girls are not promoting anorexia as a lifestyle.
2 These girls are not influencing others but showing off their bodies, because god knows the majority of you here either want to look like them or did at one time wish you looked like them. Be honest- is this accurate? I want you to get to a place where you don’t want to look like anyone but you.
3 These body images are ugly. They are, and because they are based in vanity and to me being vain is ugly. I don’t see bones as beautiful in any way whatsoever and these images are just purely painful to look at. The flaunting of this look is appauling. The arrogance of the look on their faces is irritating and infuriating. I do not see these girls as sick. I do however skip over many, many, many images of girls doing the exact same poses and I can see in their eyes, skin tone, expression, etc they obviously are anorexic and posting the images for the reasons you all defend.
Perhaps I judge one of these girls wrong and they are really mentally ill, not promoting the proana lifestyle and I am hurting them by posting their image here? As I have said time and time again, tell them they may email me and I will remove their picture, no questions asked. So Josie, yes if you asked me to remove your picture if I happened to post it- it would be gone in a flash. Here’s a good one for you- remember the girl in the blue shirt with the pennies and rings in her collarbones? She explained she thought this was funny, all her youtube buddies agreed with her.
I asked her if she wanted me to remove her picture and I never heard from her again. Hmmm. I wonder why? Proud of it perhaps? How, in the name of god, do you think that placing pennies and rings in the sunken in starved structure of your collarbones is FUNNY. Funny! Crap, I can’t take it sometimes girls! It is so damn outradgeous…see I can’t even spell I am so hyped up!
Anyway, I will move on to the next post. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
-mamaV
Hi Sarah! Thanks for the comment. You are probably correct that everyone rips on models because they wish they were like them…..that is why I am here, to stop that desire, to stop that drive to be someone else. Can you imagine getting to a place where there is no one you want to be but you? Well I am there and it feels so damn good that is why I am pounding on you girls all the time!!! I want you all to feel this and know how great life can be when you get this 1000 pound gorilla off your back.
So who am I to say who is ugly and pretty? Bones sticking out are ugly. plain and simple, I don’t see any beauty in that frame whatsoever. I think I have a right to say this because deadly on top of it. Sure, some girls are “naturally” this way, lets not rehash that. These girls I do not believe are naturally that way, they are starving to be this way, showing it off, influencing others, so I choose to combat the problem by stating – its ugly. I am confortable saying this.
What is pretty? Being real, in body and spirit. You know when you meet someone who is confortable in their skin? Their expression, their style, their gestures, everything is just comforting, and interesting, and appealing….that’s pretty to me.
What do you think?
-mamaV
This makes me sad. The girl is not fat. Sizes are bull anyway. You can be a size 6 in one brand and a size 8 in another brand, so the sizes aren’t even consistant. I was watching Pretty Woman last night and Julia Roberts character was a size 6. We know this because when she goes shopping for a dress, the sales lady says “you’re a size 6 right?” and Julia Roberts character is considered the beautiful “it” women. Now a size 6 would be, what, normal size if size 8 is plus size? If the movie were remade today, whould the main character have to be a size 2 to be beautiful? When did this happen and why?
Hi Beth: Thanks for posting. I believe there is a group who have a mental disease and a group who choose to promote anorexia as a lifestyle. I believe these images represent girls who are living and promoting it as a lifestyle, I may be wrong but I will take that chance (see post above detailing my very open policy for removing images by request).
Obesity is a major epidemic, and another form of disordered eating right? I think healthy is what we should be going for, don’t you? Not bones, or rolls, how about healthy?
I don’t like this arguement that is being used as an excuse to be anorexic/bulimic/ednos- “better than being fat” – this does not logically make sense. It’s just pointing to the faults of others to justify your own faulty actions, do you know what I mean?
I don’t believe in the whole “support” theory when it comes to online forums, its like alcoholics heading down to the bar to chat with their drinking buddies about their issues. Reaching out to healthy individuals or therapists is ideally the way to go, however I do understand the “understanding” you receive through talking to others in your same prediciment. Bottomline, you will sink further and longer in your disease if you rely too much on those with your same illness.
Just my point of view, not fact.
Take care,
mamaV
Yes Michelle, you and I can be tubs together
-mamaV
SO if size 8 is the new 14, does that make size 10 a 16?? a size 12 an 18?? Well now I just want to jump at the chance to try and beat my ed so I can walk down the road and be the one mistaken for a bus!!!
STupid fricking ED is fucking our lifes up and yet people still seem to not bother caring about what they say and what they do!
SOD IT! I GIVE UP
Hi Alexaaa: I am not one to sugarcoat so – yes bones are ugly. If you had a picture like this with bones sticking out I would say you looked, well, ugly.
Truth hurts, and its about time someone said it. Human bones are meant to be seen, they are the skeleton that makes up our body for gods sake. Do you realize how totally demented this is to think this is attractive? (Now remember I talking about those who promote anorexia as a lifestyle – don’t confuse this with mental illness),
What scares me most? The majority of you believe this is attractive…and there in lies our problem.
This entire debate is about what is “plus size” as if being plus size is being called a four letter word. I’ll be plus sized, it just proves how totally and completely we are sucked into the rules of fashion. Tyra slaps the ole plus sized label on an 8 and suddenly its like “oh my god, don’t call me that?”
We all just have to learn how to say “WHO CARES!” (that includes me)
Add vanity to bones as in these cases, and we really have an ugly picture.
-mamaV
Hi Danyel: What the heck?! I did not receive your email again?
Gotta love Tyra. This is the woman who picked an anorexic drag queen (who is actually SICK looking, not good fashion skinny), and rolls around on the floor screaming about the wonders of Vaseline. Everything that comes out of that woman’s mouth is bullshit. I hate her, even though I’m pro-thin models.
We should call her Tyrant. Because that’s what she is.
MamaV:
(heated discussion ensuing!!!)
If we look at these 3 girls, how do you KNOW that they are touting anorexia as a lifestyle? What proof is there in those photos that these girls ARE pro-anorexic (in the true lifestyle-advocating sense of the word)?
I’ll agree that everyone is influenced by the media, but that’s whether they have an ED or not. People with EDs are not more influenced by the media than anyone else.
Do you think that myspace pictures should all be taken down because girls are ’strutting their stuff’ there? Is it okay for ‘normal’-weight girls to ’strut their stuff’ but not thin girls?
Should makeup be labelled as ugly because that is completely and utterly based in vanity?
And then, what about those who are naturally slim? My sister who until recently was as thin, if not thinner, than two of those 3 girls, is she ugly? Are girls in Asia all ugly, considering the largest size stocked in a Japanese store here is a size 10, labelled “XXL”?
And then, if it’s a case of someone being thin that’s offensive, what is “too thin” anyway?
Here’s a photo which i saw on a thinpiration website: http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/kj1987/DSC02114.jpg
I’ll give you 3 guesses who that girl is(!). The photo was actually uploaded to be a myspace picture. I posted it on livejournal too so that my friends there could see what i looked like, and of course it entered the thinspiration circuits.
Am i touting anorexia as a lifestyle? No, never have.
Am i vain? No more so than anyone else.
Am i ugly too?
Bottomline is, there is absolutely no proof that those 3 girls believe anorexia to be a lifestyle, apart from those pictures were on pro-ana sites. And the reason those pictures were on pro-ana sites was because those girls are thin… not neccessarily because the girls put them there, not neccessarily because the girls are pro-ana, not neccessarily because those girls are vain.
They could be ANYONE.
If a pro-ana is collecting thinpo they’ll take pictures from anywhere.
I don’t understand why the fact that a girl (or a boy, which there are plenty of) may be touting anorexia as a lifestyle means she doesn’t have a mental disease.
I agree that there are many pro-anas who don’t have an actual disease, but I think it’s hard to get very thin without a disease. There are also studies suggesting that starving itself can cause the disease.
It’s hard to starve, which is why I think a sort of feeling of superiority often comes in to play. Anorexia is a mental disorder. Anorexics are known for being disagreeable, hard to get along with, and often downright nasty. They are scared and will do a lot to defend their disorder, which they may see as a lifestyle.
Believe me, if someone is just wannarexic without the actual mental disorder, it’s usually obvious. There are a lot of posts (particularly on Xanga, it seems) that say something like “I was doing so well on my fast but on the second day I was FORCED to eat by my friends and I ate two pizzas, a pound of candy, and three plates of spaghetti.” (Perhaps a slight exaggeration.
)
As I said before, starving is hard if you don’t have an actual mental disorder, and it’s rare that someone who does not have the actual mental disorder of anorexia will starve his/her way to an actual anorexic weight.
I feel bad for the wannarexics, though, and sometimes those who identify themselves as real anorexics can be rude to the others. There’s a blog on Xanga dedicated to outing blogs by people they see as fake anorexics. Just because they don’e really have anorexia doesn’t mean they’re not suffering.
Anyway, I agree with you about your original point. To be fair, Tyra did say that Sarah isn’t really plus-sized but rather “real-sized” – between skinny model-sized and plus-sized, I guess. Still, Sarah is considered the plus-sized girl for this cycle, and it is pretty ridiculous to call a size 8 “plus.” I have a BMI in the 16s and I wear a size 8. (I’m 5” taller than Sarah.)
Oh, and on another note, it is too bad that plus sized is considered an insult. In a fight between two of the ANTM girls, one called the other “borderline plus-sized” as if were a tremendous insult. (Neither girl was the supposed plus-sized one on the show.)
I do think the NTM franchises try somewhat to change the idea that models must be extremely thin, but I don’t think it’s working too well. On one Australia’s Next Top Model episode they sent a 16-year-old girl home crying after telling her that she had gained weight and was starting to look fat. They went on to choose a girl with a BMI in the 15’s as their winner. Alice, the winner, did say that she was naturally that way and her doctor agreed that she was eating healthy. I’m willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, but still…
Heh. I bet this is a really long post.
I enjoy reading your posts, mamaV. It is delightful to hear your cries of “cut the crap” and start being yourself.
It goes without saying that the “oversized model” is far from being oversized and very attractiv. I can remember in previous posts, a girl saying, that we are constantly brainwashed and that, in my view, is certainly true. It is in the beautieindustry’s interest to keep us self conscience so we continue to fill up our emptieness with new products. That some women starve themself to death is “just” a side effect which can’t be helped. The machine must continue, some sacrificies have to be done, so a bunch of rich people can get even richer. Did the fashion industry make me annorexic when I was a teenager ; at first thought I would say no. And then I remeber my search for being loved and my silly equasion : love = beauty =models =skinny.That was the trigger…after that came the obsession of control.
For a very short period the greeks managed to make sculptures which looked like real humain beings. They stoped apparently because they got bored with them. Why recreate humains, when they are everywhere? The sculptures which followed seemed to be humain but they were slightly overexagerated, anatomically impossible.
We are doing the same thing with ourselvs, not with sculptures.
The pictures we see today aren’t reality. Photography is an art and with the new technology is, what I would call, photographical sculpturing. The person, the photograph, it’s just the raw material.
We are living in a society were youth is the ultimate aim, and what ever happens, we grow older and frustrated. We’ve got it all wrong. If we used 10% of the advertising budget (which makes us unhappy) for the develloping countries, we could stop starvation. And I agree, bones aren’t beautiful. Smiles are.
PS : I am very happy that All Gore won the Nobel Prize. (Out of subject, I know)
josie said most of what i wanted to say already, except i’d like to know who on earth gave you the magical power to look at a picture of someone and decide whether or not they are ill, if they’re promoting anorexia, etc? seriously, you look at their faces and if they’re smiling in the picture then it must be because they’re “bad” proanas, but if they look sad then oh, they’re the good kind?
also, do you count me as one of the evil proanas out to hurt people’s children or as one of the poor little lost souls your website is trying to save. i am not EITHER but i’m closer to the first than i am to the latter.
go ahead, heather. condescend condescend, defend everything you say or do even when very intelligent people like josie (and myself) cry out in disagreement. are you even capable of admitting that you might be wrong about anything?
first off, KerryElizabeth (who was one of the beginning posters) made the most sense because she accurately explained what was going on w/ tyra and ANTM (mamaV, i noticed you did not respond to her post, i wonder why that was?)
mamaV, i like you. really, i think you are trying to do a good thing and i usually respect your opinion, however, sometimes i think you take things out of context.
this whole ANTM business is one example (look at what KerryElizabeth wrote if you don’t know what i mean)
another time would be the whole fashion week/barf bag thing… you made it seem as if the barf bag thing was connected to bulimia… but if you have looked closer, you would have seen that it was all a joke, that they were asking people which designer made such awful clothes that it made them want to throw up. not exactly the same thing…
all i’m saying is, you will have people jump down your throat no matter what you write. so at least make sure you have all the facts and you aren’t just going on opinion.
keep it up,
shanz
I thought I knew what I was talking about, but now I think I am completely confused..
does this make me fat? I don’t want to be fat. I don’t want to be considered overweight or tubby or ginormous or ugly or anything. I’m done with being fat.
Sure I am very optimistic. Sure I am in a good mood most the time.. but you know that was the most confusing time of my life when I was called fat.
I didn’t know whether I was happy because sure I don’t care.. or completely completely horrified that someone just called me fat.
I was more horrified.
I’ll be honest.
My friends tell me, “No, Michelle, you’re not fat.”
I knew they were liars.
I’m lost right now.
kerry elizabeth, i thought that same thing.
mamav, did you see that episode of antm? i would like to hear what you have to say about it, because it kind of refutes this whole thing. i think tyra is a good person(of course i don’t know her personally) but i do believe she is a better role model than some, no?
also, my channel of the last antm got screwed up.. can someone please tell me who was eliminated? thanks
Sarah–
the yale student was eliminated… victoria was her name, i believe. i liked her a lot.
NOO!! i loved her. she was smart, and stood up for herself. but our society doesn’t like that do they!
Yeah, society doesn’t really care for smart, well-together women, do they? They prey like leeches on the seeds of self-doubt and self-consciousness. Screw that shit. I’m not going to be a part of it any more.
And, after reading KerryElizabeth’s rebuttal, I still think that Tyra is pretty cool. She’s done a lot for the ED world, believe it or not. She personally took somebody to the residential care facility because that person could not muster up the courage to do it herself. She’s a good person at heart, and “real-sized” people ROCK! Go Tyra!
Hi Shana: Thanks for pointing me back to Kerry Elizabeth’s post….I have gone back and I will comment shortly.
Interestingly, you commented that I am taking things out of context but after reading her post I only found more fuel for my fire! I have a lot more to say, but Tyra’s logic on the show is totally flawed, and it surprises me that everyone seemed to take it hook, line and sinker (keep your eye out for a full post later today).
On the barf bag incident, that story was from Jezabel.com, and I don’t agree that the purpose of the stunt was “what clothes make you want to barf.” The entire stunt was about shoving in the face of the designers the reality of models with eating disorders, in order to fit their clothes. Go here to view: http://jezebel.com/gossip/crashin.-week/our-barf-bags-were-a-hit-except-with-you-know-the-models-297376.php
Take Care!
-mamaV
Hi Michelle: I think it is good you are confused, that means you are thinking. You are thinking about how none of these fashion rules set forth make sense, you are thinking about how the rules change, are totally arbitrary. You are thinking for yourself.
When I commented “you and I can be tubs together” the purpose was to say it doesn’t matter what label you put on us, its all a state of mind.
Was it not for the constant brainwashing, you would know, completely, that it is proposterous that one that stands 5′10 at 150 pounds is anything but perfect, healthy, and yes – THIN.
Love,
mamaV
Hi Vanessa: Here’s my logic on the pictures. I could be right, and I could be wrong on the particular girls I choose to showcase here.
I am willing to take that chance in order to expose the problem.
The last time I was emailed by a girl who was a friend of a girl I had posted here, the image was removed immediately. Her friend explained that she was seriously mentally ill. In this case, I judged her wrong and corrected the mistake.
I find it interesting that I don’t hear a heck of a lot from the girls I showcase here. I hear from those who oppose my actions, but not more than a peep from those featured…..why is that? Proud perhaps.
Vanessa, my goal is not to condesend. However I will not stand for anyone who stands up and says “anorexia is a lifestyle.” This is bs, you know it, I know it.
If you are leading a pro ana forum of girls who are not wannabes but those with ED’s seeking “support” from others like them, good for you. I don’t have to agree that this is an ideal platform for support, but I don’t believe it is all bad either. This is your perogative.
Take care,
mamaV
mamaV-
i can honestly say i agree with practically everything you are fighting for.
im not a frequent poster, but after seeing this post-i felt compelled to.
i see that a few people could understand where i was coming from-in believing that tyra is not the enemy.
but i can see you responded to someone’s post-and said that my comment gave you more fuel for the fire.
and i guess i can be glad that it is going to bring another post-because i do enjoy your blogs. they make people think!
i just have to be honest and say-it did kind of hurt my feelings that you go through and have comments and responses to so many other girls, but did not say anything to mine.
i see now why. just might have understood it more if you had commented to me, and let me know.
but i know its not your responsibility to make sure no one’s feelings get hurt.
and i really do love all of your posts and how they make me think. so i look forward to future blogs.
take care.
~kerryelizabeth
Regarding wannabes, I do know who the girl wearing the “skinny bitch” t-shirt is and she isn’t a wannabe. She’s very sick and dislikes her disease, but was just having some fun with the shirt. I think those pictures have become popular with wannabes, though.
P.S. I’m referring to a picture in a previous post, that I was reminded of just now.
Where you been, girl? They raised the nominal number b/c of the obesity running rampant in America, spilling onto over-seas..
I’d be happy about my size 12 (which I never even had to shop for, now i know why)
But, I know that just means I’m really a 16 and have to get aaaalll the way down to size 6..
Errgh, having low self-esteem sux!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanity_sizing
2 words:
Vanity Sizing!
http://tinyurl.com/2qero7
Just found out about this like 2 months ago!! Great! So, instead of STOPPING at 12, I have to get down to 2-4?!?!?!
Someone just kill me now, please!!
Sorry for the multiple post, thought the last one got deleted..
I’m not pro-ana or anything, but I think that over a size 6 is big. I’m personally a 0, but I know that’s because of my illness and that it’s extremely unhealthy.
i was watching the girl that did the “fat rant” vid on youtube on the morning show, she said size 8 is the new 14 and litterly it is, we shifted out standards. size 2 in the US is a size 8 in the UK…i wonder if that means anything.
I’ve always wanted to be a plus size model. But at 16, 5′6, size UK10 and 130pounds, I don’t quite fit I think. Wait. Is Sarah a size US8 or UK8? I think she was amazing. She could’ve been the top model if they gave her a chance. She could’ve proved that there are average sized girls who deserve the title!
Hey, I’m usually just a lurker, but I had to jump in here.
I’m not “Pro-Ana”, but I am Anorexic. You said that this is all about body image… that Pro-Anas starve themselves because they think bones are pretty.
I’m at a healthy weight right now, and I KNOW I’m pretty. But that’s the last thing I want. I hate the attention I get from men, the unwanted sexual advances. I hate being used, and I hate being coerced into doing sexual favors.
I’m starving, not because I want to be pretty, but because I want to be ugly. I’m starving because I want men to stay away.
What I don’t understand here is that 150lbs is a size 8?
I’m about 137 lbs, 5 ft 6 and I’m a 12.
Am I missing something?
But yeah, I realised at school recently how many people around me are suffering from eating disorders because of media pressure. It’s really sad
Answered my own question, I’m thinking UK size 8, you guys are on about American size 8 :p
Still, what’s an American 8 in UK sizes?
Hold it. I agree that Tyra’s world is a little screw ball, but wait, the caption under that picture? thats not supposed to be meant for the horror of aging, that for premature aging, for smokers. That whole episode was about how smoking isn’t sophisticated, and all the side effects it leaves. Please double check what you say before you go and say that.
those last three pictures, the “ana” girls? the one in the middle, in the bikini top… she’s recovered now. a healthy weight. trying to rebuild her life. i don’t think it’s appropriate to keep posting her picture to prove your points. btw, her name is jessyka, and she’s beautiful and strong as fuck.